What are webmasters thoughts on having pre-checked cross sells and Forced trials on a join page? I am looking at the over all perception of how websites who have these are perceived.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
whistle Check this thread out, it might give you a clue.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
I think you might loose alot of webmasters doing that.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
i don’t like hidden cross sales. it’s not morality - it’s practicality. sure, you make more money in the short run, but pissing off guys who are proven buyers and making them feel that porn sites rip them off is NOT the way to get them to spend in the long term. if we as an industry continue to alienate our customers, we’ll have less and less customers left who spend money on our sites.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
Pretty bad idea in my book. As a surfer some years ago, I got hit with one and it was hell to get it fixed. I didn’t join another site for almost 2 years. I thought all porn companies were thieves and wouldn’t trust them with my credit card on a bet.
I doubt that I am an isolated case.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
It depends on who you ask.
There’s a whole community of sleazy sites and their promoters that have a “thieves creed” of don’t screw each other over but fuck everyone else. In time they always end up fucking each other over, then playing victim and the “I had no idea” card.
I don’t know anyone, who does good business, that thinks pre-checked cross sells and forced trials on a join page are acceptable business practices.
You have to feel bad for surfers that fall victims to these kinds of sites. unfortunate. I’m glad Visa has changed it’s regulations… ten years to late if you ask me.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
I was under the impression that Visa and Mastercard were doing away with this?
I dont see an an issue with forced trials, if I understand correctly what you mean. Like Mansites give a free 1 year pass to their avs in return for a customer taking a free trial which rebills if not cancelled. Thats fair enough imo as the surfer knows what their signing up to and can cancel when they wish. But you have to say clearly on the join page that your doing that (which they do of course).
If I were Mansites Id be looking more at a $1 1 year pass instead of the free 1 year pass. Let webmasters choose which to promote. I think youd sell alot better if you did that.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
I really dont like it. Its just a dirty trick to get more money out of people. What sites should concentrate on is making sure their members are happy and stay on for a long timer. Rather than scam them with a big hidden rebill. The only way to have real lasting success is to have a good product that people love.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
How do you feel about the “free” avs systems? Are you comfortable with their business model?
Im kind of ok with pre check cross sales that are are above the submit button and have clear text explaining the offer (in a reasonable font size and color thats easy to read). As a surfer I have taken advantage of that before and actually like the cross sold site, but not the origional site. Im very anti hidden pre check cross sales, to me thats simply fraud.
I understand webmasters are turning against all pre checked cross sales so if I was a sponsor, its not something I would do.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
i’m not thrilled with pre-checks even above the fold - if they wanted to be honest and let members opt in as they join, they’d use unchecked cross sales. unchecked i have no problem with. but you’d be surprised how many less people check them than join with the pre-checks still checked.
let’s face it - very few people want three paysite memberships at a time, and particularly since the pre-checks are often sites they haven’t seen at all and or are very incompatible niches.
[quote=marcjacob;34512]How do you feel about the “free” avs systems? Are you comfortable with their business model?
Im kind of ok with pre check cross sales that are are above the submit button and have clear text explaining the offer (in a reasonable font size and color thats easy to read). As a surfer I have taken advantage of that before and actually like the cross sold site, but not the origional site. Im very anti hidden pre check cross sales, to me thats simply fraud.
I understand webmasters are turning against all pre checked cross sales so if I was a sponsor, its not something I would do.[/quote]
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
The only webmasters/sponsors I’ve seen turning against pre checked cross sales are the ones who’ve been utilizing them, and now that Visa has changed it’s policy they are trying to find every reason for not using them, and going along with those of us who’ve never used them all these years. strange how quickly the worm turns in this industry
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I dont think thats true. If you read GFY about non hidden cross sells. There are those who think its awfull, and those who dont care as long as the surfer is clearly shown what he/she is signing up to. I dont see many people changing their mind.
From a business point of view, I personally wouldnt put pre checked cross sells on any sites I was promoting to affiliates, as youd get more affiliates without. But Ill still promote non hidden cross sells.
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I think I mis typed what I meant when I said turning against. I actually think enough webmasters dont like cross sells to make it not worth sponsors using. I shouldnt have said turning against as I dont think thats true.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
[quote=marcjacob;34535]I dont think thats true. If you read GFY about non hidden cross sells. There are those who think its awfull, and those who dont care as long as the surfer is clearly shown what he/she is signing up to. I dont see many people changing their mind.
From a business point of view, I personally wouldnt put pre checked cross sells on any sites I was promoting to affiliates, as youd get more affiliates without. But Ill still promote non hidden cross sells.[/quote]
The whole $1 trial $50 pps model is based on prechecked cross sales, you see on other Gay boards people back peddling now against prechecked cross sales, site owners who’ve utilized them, and sponsors who’ve promoted them, until they were outlawed by Visa 
And they were popular… some of the biggest programs made their money off screwing surfers via pre checked cross sales.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
We dont use this technique. At the onset, we wanted to build brands that people trust and would yield high rebills and low chargebacks. We think this practice would work against that and a strong rebill stream is where we want to stay focused.
Its funny, at an adult conference one time, I was chatting with some collegues in the straight market. They were shocked that we didnt use the approach, telling me how much money is to be made. I told them about our strategy but that didnt seem to make a strong impression. Perhaps its one of the differences between gay and straight, dont know for sure. Regardless, we are sticking with this approach, it seems to have helped do what we have set out to achieve (very low chargeback, high retention).
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
[QUOTE=Squirt;34539]The whole $1 trial $50 pps model is based on prechecked cross sales, you see on other Gay boards people back peddling now against prechecked cross sales, site owners who’ve utilized them, and sponsors who’ve promoted them, until they were outlawed by Visa
And they were popular… some of the biggest programs made their money off screwing surfers via pre checked cross sales.[/QUOTE]
I think alot of the big PPS payouts will go now. I think what with this and the recession, were about to see a bit of a shake up in porn.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
Hopefully a huge shake up that turfs the less than reputable types, but I think it is going to be the honest one’s who will bear the brunt of things. Be nice if it worked out differently though. whistle
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
I am really learning a lot from this thread chain. These are the types of discussions that I like to read because although I am the affiliate manager of one of the oldest AVS models, I am new to the industry and looking to learn. Thanks.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
I totally agree. I have caught shit on other boards because I strongly believe in exclusive content and building a brand with a reputation. There are two very different approaches to this business. Selling sex needs to an ethical business.
Re: Pre-checked cross sells and Forced Trials
something you may already be aware of if that marcjacob was correct - mastercard is no longer allowing pre-checks at all. so if you do decide to use them, you’ll have to have seperate join pages for mastercard vs other payment methods.
have you ever been billed for something you weren’t aware of? lots of people i know were billed for an additional year by bally’s, and even though if it was in their contract, bally’s did refund if you made a fuss. now all those people belong to other gyms and are extremely unlikely to rejoin bally’s. also worth mentioning is that bally’s seems to have discontinued this practice and now offers ex-members substantial discounts to rejoin, so it may be they found that an unwilling member didn’t pay as well in the long run - i’m not sure why they stopped.