As a content provider myself and using a 3rd program; I do wonder (and worry for my affiliates) about these things too. I don’t have any knowledge on how my 3rd party deals with these things, I just hope it all goes well; sometimes I do email my affiliates and ask them if they get their payments on time.
But this is a good question, so all of you please input here!
1 thing I DID pick up on …
you mentioned cookies when it comes to affiliate A or B getting the commission.
How does it work for this?:
Surfer X sees site Z at affiliate A on 1 Aug at 1pm (cookie set …)
Surfer X goes away - surfs more and happens to stumble on site Z again at affiliate B (Aug 1 at 2pm) - now he has seen 2 sites recommending Z - so he signs up … Who deserves the commission?
Surfer X sees site Z at affiliate A on 1 Aug at 1pm (cookie set …)
Surfer X goes away - surfs more and happens to stumble on site Z again at affiliate B (Aug 1 at 2pm) - now he has seen 2 sites recommending Z - so he signs up … Who deserves the commission?[/QUOTE]
This has always been an issue with cookies. Some say the first should get the sale while others say the second should.
Most programs give the sale to the last affiliate link. I didn’t realize that any had a cookie so it couldn’t be overwritten.
I still say the sale should be given to the last webmaster. But, in the end, it all equals out. You gain some sales, and you lose some sales. IMHO, as long as all affiliates are on the same playing field.
Naturally I follow up with payment processor’s customer service and ask how another affiliate’s code got on the sale and was told that it’s the first affiliate that sets the referral cookie that is credited with the sale, not the last. [/QUOTE]
Did you actually verify this yourself by checking the join page after visiting two affiliate links? I was under the impression that this biller did not set a cookie that couldn’t be overwritten.
I have asked this biller the question before. Asked 5 people. Finally, I got three to agree that it was the last and not the first. But, there ya go!
@GayBucks_Chip - I really appreciate your comments… Especially your confirming that conversion ratios are lower than average for programs run by that payment processor.
And lastly I’d like to add that the site owner got back to me and was shocked to hear that he hadn’t set things up properly. He’s escalating it with the payment processor to get it resolved. There’s something in how he states things that makes me believe him. So it does appear to be a genuine mistake, which is why I don’t think any of this is an issue of blame so much as how can we learn from these situations and avoid getting hurt by them.
You need to choose your sponsors wisely I think. Its not as simple as just checking up on them. How can you do that when many sponsor consider test transactions, even when reported to the sponsor, as fraud.
I know some sponsors will allow a test transactions as theyve nothing to hide but Ive been kicked off PPS by a webcams sponsor for doing a test, AND emailing them to say pls deduct one sale from me as I did a test (something fraudsters dont tend to do Id guess). I left that sponsor as I thought “what are they so scared of?” - also worth pointing out I didnt ask for a refund, I was happy to loose the money and not claim the sale.
This case sounds more like a mistake than a scam to me. Probably bad webmaster suport on the billers side, personally Id have apologised, credited your account, and made sure it wasnt likely to happen again.
but the biller you asked then contradicts itself - if raw asked and got told the 1st one and you got told the 2nd one (regarding the cookie that counts)
unless both of you - who are not naming names - are talking about different billers…
[QUOTE=rawTOP;17679]@GayBucks_Chip - I really appreciate your comments… Especially your confirming that conversion ratios are lower than average for programs run by that payment processor.
And lastly I’d like to add that the site owner got back to me and was shocked to hear that he hadn’t set things up properly. He’s escalating it with the payment processor to get it resolved. There’s something in how he states things that makes me believe him. So it does appear to be a genuine mistake, which is why I don’t think any of this is an issue of blame so much as how can we learn from these situations and avoid getting hurt by them.[/QUOTE]
I am sure it is a genuine mistake on his part. This payment processor is notorious for giving out information that is just not accurate at times. I don’t think they do it by intention either. I have learned to get at least three answers to the same question and only when a majority say one or the other do I stop asking.
99% of my rev comes from VOD, not affiliate payouts from sponsors, BUT in the context of “shaving”…
I have a VOD provider that about once a month, a day will go by where the stats don’t update.
I’ve been doing this for 3 years, and in VOD, the rules of statistical probability really show up. I can reliably and predictably earn XXX dollars per day, so to not make ANY dollars in a one-day time period is obvious.
That $0 day is preceded by 30 days of the reliable X dollars per day, and followed as well. But there in the middle, like a donut hole, is a ZERO!
It’s not like the Stats keeper might have gone fishing on Tuesday, then on Wednesday the number is twice what it should have been - Tues and Wed combined, it is just not there.
So annoying. Yet we’re so helpless because who ya gonna call??
We have our own merchant account, but our affiliate program is handled by CCBill. It’s gives our affiliates a little extra assurance that our program is on the up and up and gives us the freedom to concentrate on providing the excellent quality content for our members, third party Video Feed subscribers and Affiliates.
That’s what is great about boards like this. Though affiliates may never know if they are getting 100% of the sales (regardless of who made the error), places like this help people identify the “most honest” sites and we can spend our time promoting them.
Due to such a lot of problems in the last 1 or 2 years with getting paid by Sponsors using their own systesm, I now prefer and only really promote programs who use Epoch, CCBill, Verotel etc. Or atleast NATS. I do think twice before signing up, where as I used to not worry much. If its a well known name that also helps for making up my mind.
Only in the last 2 years I have removed and stopped advertising well over 200 sites for different reasons including payment problems, odd stats, traffic leaks etc. Thats a pretty high turnover of sponsors!
The larger billing compainies have their faults, but I having a 3rd party dealing with payouts and stats really makes up for most of those.
A site owner contacted me, wanting me to signup for his program. But he wanted us to discuss and decide how much the commission would be. He told me he did different for everyone… he didnt use any of the larger billing providers but his own bank / merchant account because it was cheaper… Neither did he use NATs but his own little system.
A few years back I would probably have tested it out. Now? Never, no chance I would bother to even test it. Simply not worth the hassle.
Now how can you trust that? I dont know him, never seen the site before and not even got a established commission setup.
[QUOTE=gaydemon;17710]which reminded me of a example just yeasterday.
A site owner contacted me, wanting me to signup for his program. But he wanted us to discuss and decide how much the commission would be. He told me he did different for everyone… he didnt use any of the larger billing providers but his own bank / merchant account because it was cheaper… Neither did he use NATs but his own little system.
A few years back I would probably have tested it out. Now? Never, no chance I would bother to even test it. Simply not worth the hassle.
Now how can you trust that? I dont know him, never seen the site before and not even got a established commission setup.[/QUOTE]
Is someone cooking breakfast? I could swear I smell “Scam and Eggs”!lol
[QUOTE=gaydemon;17706]Due to such a lot of problems in the last 1 or 2 years with getting paid by Sponsors using their own systesm, I now prefer and only really promote programs who use Epoch, CCBill, Verotel etc. Or atleast NATS. I do think twice before signing up, where as I used to not worry much. If its a well known name that also helps for making up my mind.
The larger billing compainies have their faults, but I having a 3rd party dealing with payouts and stats really makes up for most of those.[/QUOTE]
Are there cases, even with 3rd party involvement, that you avoid just because you can tell there are likely to be problems? Things like two semi-connected sites each with it’s own affiliate program? Or do you just watch for a while and drop ones with low conversion ratios? If so, what’s your threshold?
What I do, if its site using CCBill, Epoch, Verotel or DHD. I take them on, run them for around 4-6 months, then check on how its going.
By then you can see what’s going on, if there are little or no sales. Bad conversion ratios etc. Over a longer period and more traffic its easy to spot problems and I check each site over and try and find what it is. Then when I know why (if i find out) I then decide what to do.
I either drop the site, change the amount of traffic I send, or change how its advertised. All depending on what it might be.
The easiest ones to figure out are always the worst ones. Like traffic leaks or as many times have happened, the join page uses a different billing company (I use ccbill codes, the join page uses verotel).
But I continue to do the same every few months for all sites even after the first 6 months. My spreadsheet (with the help of statsremote) gives me warnings when a site goes below a set amount ($0.02 / hit). So I can easily see when something isnt quite right.
Initially, I treat all sponsors with suspicion, and those using NATS or their own in-house systems with extreme mistrust. This is based on two years of bad experiences. Its in the nature of sponsors to try to steal from affiliates if they can get away with it.
Its reached the point for me when Iâm reluctant to sign up for any new programs that are using NATS or their own systems.
[QUOTE=Hammerhead;17723]
Its reached the point for me when Iâm reluctant to sign up for any new programs that are using NATS or their own systems.[/QUOTE]
And we hear that from a lot of programs. It’s really sad, given that NATS original selling point was its reliability and resistance to shaving.
It still amazes me that there are so few real options for sponsors as far as third-party affiliate software.
For anyone making a new purchase, there’s really only one real option that seems to be universally accepted (MPA), unless you want to go with something relatively unknown. It still surprises me that ExecutiveStats isn’t being pushed more aggressively by NatNet, since I keep hearing good things about it.
Why are the processors not offering more hand-holding when it comes to helping sponsors setting up their affiliate programs? It seems to me if the processors were educating and helping sponsors, then it works to everyone’s advantage.
Sponsors won’t be embarrassed.
Sponsors and processors won’t be the targets of attacks by webmasters on the boards, which gives both the sponsor and the biller a bad rap.
Webmasters are happy because they’re getting paid.
Exactly… But just the opposite seems to be happening.
The sponsor wrote an e-mail that went to me and the payment processor in which he said “It never entered my mind that setting up a joint sign up for both our sites would exclude any of our affiliates from their payouts just because they did not have an affiliate account with the sub account which [payment processor] requires when setting up the join link, in this case 3000.”
To which ‘support’ at the payment processor replied “The Affiliate programs webmaster has the ability to setup individual programs for the each sub-account or for the account as a whole. This program as you know, has been setup with an individual affiliate program for each sub-account. The account that you have sent a sale to currently does not have an affiliate program setup.”
How in the hell does that help the sponsor resolve the issue? He even acknowledges that what he’s saying the sponsor already knows. If they weren’t so frustrating the responses would be laughable. Responses like that were very typical in the 30ish e-mails that went back and forth. They often completely missed the point and almost never addressed the real issues that could resolve the problem. It’s like they’re being paid per e-mail and want to drag it out as long as possible…
It all goes back to my former, mainstream career as a corporate trainer. If all of your people aren’t on the same page and the page isn’t up to date, you’re SCREWED. Many companies are feeling the “pinch” of our economy here in the U.S. but they are cutting the wrong departments. I debated, at length, with my former employer over their choices of budget cuts. They felt as though since there was a “hiring freeze”, there wasn’t as strong a need for training. What they failed to realize is that although the current staff was trained, there are constant changes in technology, procedures and products. Without a centralized person or department to distribute the training to handle these changes, you completely loose any aspect of consistency in your company’s service and in today’s market service will make or break a business. The dollar is stretched to it’s limit and people are looking for the most bang for their buck. If they feel the slightest bit inconvenienced or misguided, they will head directly for the competition. Being well known and established in this industry is a terrific asset, but it doesn’t make you immune to being replaced by a lesser known but more customer savy upstart (that may also be undercutting your pricing). Consistency and product knowledge…simple tools of success that are so frequently forgotten!