Sean Cody closing accounts?

Webmaster Discussion
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#9

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

Five gigs is a huge amount of video content. I can not imagine any normal user being able to watch that much in a day. The difference in the terms and what the writer indicates is the ‘repeatedly’ part. But in any case surfers seldom if ever read the faqs or terms. Many believe that they now own all the content in a website for the cost of one months membership and are in a huge hurry to download it all so that they can get it in hand before they cancel. I see more pirated Sean Cody content than anything else so it doesn’t surprise me at all.

#10

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

5gb would be about 20 of our movies… about 500 minutes of video. I can’t imagine most guys could sit through that much porn without… um… er… finishing.

#11

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

Alex, this is not aimed at you personally… But, here we as webmasters go again making assumptions about the surfing/viewing habits of members.

The last thing a member wants to do is wait 5-10 minutes for videos to download when they are horny. I don’t see a big issue for a member to download more videos than he may watch before “finishing”. A member at Sean Cody may fall for three models and download all the videos of each model. Limit broken right there. Depending on his mood when he wants to jerk off, he may want to see different scenes. We make an assumption that a member watches the whole video. I like to watch 69 scenes and some videos may have 1-2 min of that. So, for me to get off I may have to dl 20 videos and put them all in Windows Media and FF to the scenes I like just to get off.

I am guilty of what the surfer does. I download videos I like in a batch and watch the scenes from the videos that I like. If paysites wont let me do that I can hop on VOD and do it…

I don’t feel a lot of customers feel they own the content, but many just want to enjoy what they paid for in a way that fits their “needs”.

#12

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

“the customer is aways right”

We might not like it - but to run a business it is the only way …

Even if that guy is talking out of his A-hole and making stuff up - Sean Cody should keep/make him happy no matter what.

I have many BS emails from “dodgy” members - but in order to keep a good reputation I do give in to them (within reason of course)

Sean Cody should be notified of this thread ASAP!! Instead of people here making assumptions.

I don’t know this company - but I bet there are friends of him here that should do the favour and inform him of this thread here on gaydemon so he can have his say.

#13

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

As long as any site is presented as allowing a member to download (hold in perpetuity) every single video or image inside the site by allowing them to download them drm free as fast as they possibly can, there is zero reason for a “video/images only” site to retain. If I can get a huge pile of video for pennies each, why would I ever maintain that membership. I have had members tell me they didn’t realize that they were not supposed to pass these videos on to friends and post them on file sharing sites. A download limit does indicate that there are at least some rules.

The rampant downloading of videos that may never be watched is too much like the customers at the buffet that believe they are entitled to pile up as much food on their plates as they like whether they chose to eat it or not “because I paid for it”.

Back in the olden days when I would pay to join a site for reasons other than business, I never once believed I had the right to keep things that I paid to see during my membership period. I bought a ticket to see a show for a month, nothing more. I watched what I wanted to watch and if a site required the I download something fully before I could watch it, I would cancel and go elsewhere. If I wanted to continue to have access the videos that I liked, I would keep the membership active.

Several members I have contacted indicate that they often download entire libraries of content from membership sites that allow it. They seldom watch it because there is always new stuff coming along. So they download it, put it in a folder and then eventually dump the folder in the recycle bin or on a file sharing site so they have space for more things they have downloaded. They believe that sites expect and encourage this because “I bought it” It is a form of porn gluttony.

I can only relate what I as an individual have done and what we as a site do. But I very strongly believe that without the limits we impose, our content would not be as valuable in the cable on demand market nor on our other sites. The ultimate monetization of our content is key to us. Were we a download site, there would most certainly be a limit on how much someone could download in a single day.

#14

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

[QUOTE=AlexManifestMan;13502]As long as any site is presented as allowing a member to download (hold in perpetuity) every single video or image inside the site by allowing them to download them drm free as fast as they possibly can, there is zero reason for a “video/images only” site to retain.

[/QUOTE]

Sounds crazy but we have nearly a 50% retention ratio. High quality updates do retain.

The days of having an average member stay 6 months or more is long gone. Surfers join sean Cody for a couple months then join Corbin fisher then back to Sean cody. I am sure the same is true with BlakeMason and English Lads. Other sites have surfers that flip back and forth as well.

What can a webmaster really do? Make the experience at their site as best as possible so the member comes back.

When I ran my asian paysite I actually provided a link so members could burn to VCD my content (this was 5+ years ago). The site retained like mad.

Look at HBO. I can tivo to my hearts content, but I have been a subscriber for years. WHY? I like Bill Myers. The same can be applied to paysites. As long as you produce high quality content, provide excellent customer service, and make members feel at home, the site will retain. Regularly updated high quality content does retain.

Now, this is just my belief. I came from a customer service background and may be a little on the customer’s side a bit more than some, but it has worked well for me in the past.

IMHO, the traditional membership paysite model is going to start feeling the pinch from VOD sites. The more we limit access to our content and start protecting it, the more we are becoming like VOD sites without the benefit to the consumer of paying for what they only want to see.

Maybe i am too much on the customers side. But after seeing the 100s of sites that are utter crap now on the gay market, it’s refreshing to join sites that offer high quality content without tons of restrictions. Those ones will be the real winners when the market hits a saturation point in a few years. Those and VOD sites.

#15

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

According to my boyfriend, who sometimes subscribes to Sean Cody, they use DRM. As soon as the person stops subscribing the downloaded videos are worthless. Ergo, this line of reasoning doesn’t hold in this case…

#16

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

One thing we face is we have to compare how consumers think to other things. For example, if someone records a movie off HBO, should they destroy the movie if they cancel HBO? I mean I have maybe 200 VHS tapes in a closet somewhere taped from HBO, Cinemax, etc. I only have HBO. Should I destroy the tapes from Cinemax?

That is the mentality that we have to face. Consumers are use to “collecting” things. It maybe a video they never watched.

I have joined paysites and not watched one video when I was a member. But watched the ones that I downloaded a few months later.

Most surfers just want a good experience at the site. Some may think they need more to get their moneys worth. But isn’t that what it’s all about - making members feel they got a value?

Concerning the buffet - As long as the customer is full and feels like they got a good value, the buffet owner is very happy as he knows the customer will likely come back for more. Rebill!

#17

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

In one way you are right Alex, yes people download full libraries of movies, save them to a folder… But what happens after that I belive to be different from your view.

People do save it, but they do also throw it out like you said, they get tired of the same clips. They remember where they got those clips from and return to the same site, take out a membership again and download more.

It continous like that, they wont stop paying. They might cancel a subscription but if the site continue to update they are VERY likly to come back and subscribe again… Download all of it again, or any new additions… and cancel… and so on.

Porn is an addiction. And works much the same, each addict also has his specific fix… a site, niche or theme. It also means they will always come back if they found what they wanted.

#18

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

They dropped DRM a while back. (New year’s?)

#19

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

[QUOTE=gaydemon;13513]
People do save it, but they do also throw it out like you said, they get tired of the same clips. They remember where they got those clips from and return to the same site, take out a membership again and download more.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I have ALWAYS felt that the best and cheapest form of branding is having someone jerk off to your video after their membership has expired. If it makes your dick happy, they will come back for more.

I hope right now there are 100 ex-blakemason members jerking off to our videos at the moment. If so, i know some will be back soon. They are seeing our name every second they jerk off. They will come back to see what is new.

#20

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

All I am saying is this is one side of the story. I’d like to hear from sean cody too. every story has 2 sides.

#21

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

Two very different approaches to the question no doubt. But it depends very much on the site and what it has to offer. The quality and cost of the content is key here. Otherwise every singe dvd would sell for the same cost of a rental. Our VOD test sales have been pretty amazing. Many of the people that want to buy the videos are members. If they were to download and keep them for free inside a members area, that would not even be an option. Don’t want to join a site, then just buy the videos you want or elect to watch them once. Many of the plans we have would not be effective with unlimited free downloads. Our ‘dream’ customer is one who joins the site, uses it as a complete preview tool to then select and purchase the supersized files from the digital downloads store. 27% of members responding to our poll indicated that would be their plan. If each of them only bought one video per month, that is a huge increase in revenue equal to a sale made by an affiliate. All done on the inside.

This benefits affiliates as well. They will be able to make revshare off the same materials that they can promote to all those people who won’t join a site ever.

It all depends on the business plan. Nothing is done without a reason. I doubt that Sean Cody made this choice ‘on the fly’.

Everybody has a different plan. I’m just sharing a bit of ours to express why some folks make the choices that they do.

#22

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

I have to disagree on this one. Some of our updates have cost over $5k, yet we still don’t use DRM. Some sites spend very little and still DRM the content.

It’s all about how one approaches the business. Our goal is to provide the best user experience for our customers under the membership model. We don’t use DRM, have never emailed our members, our members have never seen an upsell in the member’s area, and we do no X-sells. It’s just our business philispohy.

When our competition started a VOD site, instead of following, we offered a higher quality download in our members area (DRM free) at no additional costs to our members. The result? Increased retention.

Many webmasters talk about how “protective” they should be of their content, yet few have been on both sides of the fence and seen the results. We have been protective in the form of DRM. Been there, done that. Will never go back. Being protective of our content has hampered our growth in the past and it’s just something that I don’t want to happen again.

I guess if one has the business model of bringing in a customer and try to upsell to VOD or download, then the model of unrestrictive downloads wont work. But for a site like ours who business plan is to sell memberships and retain customers it’s working really well.

I am sure I will regret this post later, as somewhere at some point, there will be a paysite that decides to open up their content a bit more and then another and another. Pretty soon they will realize what they were missing all along - increased growth that they never thought possible.

#23

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

i have a couple friends who join a new site and watch video after video after video after video. admittedly they are str8, and tend to join sites with very high quality content, so each video is around 800mb or more, and at those sites they often pass 5 gig in a day. they’ve had their logins turned off till the next day automatically at some sites and at others the download speed starts to slow after a certain point.

#24

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

I agree with it.
From what I understand Sean Cody is the most stolen from content out there. I think there are groups dedicated to downloading and sharing all of Sean Cody’s videos. They have to protect themselves from a massive loss due to constant cheaters.

Im suprised they have such heavy videos on their site. Why dont they convert them into a lighter format? Or just go with flash movies so most people cant steal.

#25

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

[QUOTE=MrMax;13532]I agree with it.
From what I understand Sean Cody is the most stolen from content out there. I think there are groups dedicated to downloading and sharing all of Sean Cody’s videos. They have to protect themselves from a massive loss due to constant cheaters.[/QUOTE]

But isn’t that like saying black men are more likely to steal so we’ll treat all black men as criminals. Just because a lot of people steal Sean Cody videos doesn’t mean Sean Cody should treat all of their members as thieves. They should go after the places that are peddling the stolen videos.

I’m sorry if I’ve bought a Sean Cody membership, I expect to be able to take as much of their content as I want. I bought it, I’m entitled to it. And if you’re forcing me to maintain a membership to watch it forever, then why can’t I have it when I want it.

It’s this kind of heavy handedness (if it’s really happening) that earns us all disfavour in the eyes of the surfers.

Michael

#26

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

I guess it all comes down to opinion. We have a download limit - 15GB within 12 hours - then a 12 hour block. BUT - the member can fill in a form and ask for the block to be removed sooner… and we always do that, whilst simply asking them to take things a little slower in future!

15GB is around 60 high res films for us, so it’s pretty much guaranteed they are using a DL manager, something we prohibit in our T&Cs. But a good humoured message nearly always gets a matching reply… “I guess Health and Safety laws mean you have to slow us down due to fears of getting sued over RSI!!!”

#27

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

but how does it help protect them to cancel members? there’s no way to know when you cancel a member whether he’s a thief or not - he could be a guy who hates to wait, so he sets up several downloads at a time so that when he’s done he can just watch video after video. i do this myself when i review sites and i know plenty of guys who do the same.

[quote=MrMax;13532]I agree with it.
From what I understand Sean Cody is the most stolen from content out there. I think there are groups dedicated to downloading and sharing all of Sean Cody’s videos. They have to protect themselves from a massive loss due to constant cheaters.

Im suprised they have such heavy videos on their site. Why dont they convert them into a lighter format? Or just go with flash movies so most people cant steal.[/quote]

15 gig in 12 hours is more than reasonable - and you don’t cancel the members.

#28

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

[QUOTE=basschick;13541]
15 gig in 12 hours is more than reasonable - and you don’t cancel the members.[/QUOTE]

For me I disagree on that. In my opinion if someone is downloading that much in that short of a time, then they’re using a download manager and that’s not cool.
I agree with you on not canceling them. I would red flag them and send them a nice note asking whats up. And if they keep doing it then I would cancel them off. Im running a business and theyre leeching from me, so theyre not quality customers I want.

In the end I think the answer really is to just use flash movies. Some of my favorite sites used flash and while it pisses me off that I cant download the content, I always come back and renew because they have the content I like.
Its also good for compatibility because most people can watch flash movies.