Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
I don’t expect everyone to go running … however, food for thought:
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Dan Miller
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Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
[QUOTE=dzinerbear;126050]Adam, here’s on of your vids, you can grab the NATS code and see how much money you’re making.
http://www.manhub.com/watch/25643/two-cute-guys-sucking-cock-and-fucking/[/QUOTE]
Like I said, I’m not making anything lol
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
None of our videos are on there. When we do find a full length video we DMCA and then cancel their affiliate account.
Jimmy
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
hahaha … and so the plot thickens … probably no one is making money except Manhub. I figured this was the case given that tiny, hard-to-see link, so I guess it won’t be a hard call for a lot of sites to start having their videos pulled down.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Hey Jimmy,
I don’t know how they conduct business, but I did see what appeared to be a full length VideoBoys up on FabTwinks dot com. Might want to keep an eye on them.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
[QUOTE=OldSchool;126060]Hey Jimmy,
I don’t know how they conduct business, but I did see what appeared to be a full length VideoBoys up on FabTwinks dot com. Might want to keep an eye on them.[/QUOTE]
That’s not our site. 
Jimmy
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
So does that mean then that you are banning that affiliate? After all it isn’t gonna cost you anything? :whistle:
In all fairness though, I believe that not only should Sponsors ban the affiliate accounts, but WE as affiliates should refuse to not just support/use manhub but also refuse to promnote Haze Cash.
Lawsuits are expensive and time consuming, but a concerted effort by both Sponsors & Affiliates can make a difference, like it has with XXX.
Sure in the short term it will cost us ALL some money, but in the long term, it can make us money, by helping to put a damper on the endless game of whack a mole.
my two cents
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
[QUOTE=Nicedreams;126062]That’s not our site.
Jimmy[/QUOTE]
I’m well aware it’s not your site Jimmy, but they’re using a lot of twink full length content.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
[QUOTE=Gaystoryman;126064]WE as affiliates should refuse to not just support/use manhub but also refuse to promnote Haze Cash.
[/QUOTE]
I haven’t promoted their content for about a year now. Their stupidity with using animals, and their complete lack of content for affiliates to work with turned me off real quick.
I also advise affiliates I work for not to promote them either, and there is only one client of mine who requested their sites be used on his blog - thankfully I can’t do that, because they don’t provide anything decent to work with. So for that one client I skip those posts and move on to something I can work with.
Unfortunately, I kind of expect that there are plenty here who’ll bitch and whine about all of this, and still carry on doing business with them.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
I’ve been told how much Manhub is spending per month to maintain it’s SEO position. It’s an insane number… so they are making a lot of money through the ads and sponsor vids… because if they weren’t, they wouldn’t be spending what they are. Then factor in all of the other costs.
When it comes to tubes we just try to keep our content down. Porn Guardian is already all over these sites looking for videos … some will always slip through, but you won’t see 50 full length videos of ours.
In 2012 and beyond (actually way before that) copyright owners have to defensively protect their copyrights. It sucks, but it’s reality. Besides arranging boycotts that won’t happen, every copyright owner needs to really keep up on their content so that these tubes end up becoming nothing but promo clips.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Besides arranging boycotts that won’t happen, every copyright owner needs to really keep up on their content so that these tubes end up becoming nothing but promo clips.
I disagree, I think boycotts can happen and can work if enough companies take part. Jesse, let’s take for example the BlakeMason video posted above. It’s already been stated in this thread he’s not making ANY sales from the teeny tiny ‘sponsor link’ provided by Manhub. However there is a BIG HUGE banner underneath the video stating the surfer can download the video in HD. Where do you think the surfer is going to click if they want to download the video? It certainly is NOT to the sponsor’s site. MANHUB is directly taking money out of the Producer’s pocket and killing the Producer’s potential customers. Do you think the customer is really going to go to the Producer’s website after they get ripped off by Manhub? Sites like this are leeches killing our industry. But for some reason it seems like people like you turn a blind eye and don’t seem to grasp the big picture. I have a ton of other things to do and believe me the last thing I want to do is be the ‘lone warrior’ with a battle axe taking on Manhub. But if we can get the support of a couple big sponsors like you guys, I really think we can make a difference – or at the very least, get Manhub to change it’s ways and give the Producers and Sponsors back the revenues they are stealing from us.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
I am going to speak in general terms here…
You nailed that one. So many threads get started about what sponsors should do in cases like this. In this case it is really the affiliate that has all the power and not the sponsors. I can ban any affiliate but it will have minimal impact. Heck. Every sponsor could ban them and it would have very little impact. When you have traffic sources and your own revenue stream you don’t need to work with other sponsors.
But…
Sponsors need affiliates. Some of the people complaining about the business model and how it is destroying porn are marketing their websites. Go figure…
Lloyd
[QUOTE=“dannyz;126102”]
I disagree, I think boycotts can happen and can work if enough companies take part. Jesse, let’s take for example the BlakeMason video posted above. It’s already been stated in this thread he’s not making ANY sales from the teeny tiny ‘sponsor link’ provided by Manhub. However there is a BIG HUGE banner underneath the video stating the surfer can download the video in HD. Where do you think the surfer is going to click if they want to download the video? It certainly is NOT to the sponsor’s site. MANHUB is directly taking money out of the Producer’s pocket and killing the Producer’s potential customers. Do you think the customer is really going to go to the Producer’s website after they get ripped off by Manhub? Sites like this are leeches killing our industry. But for some reason it seems like people like you turn a blind eye and don’t seem to grasp the big picture. I have a ton of other things to do and believe me the last thing I want to do is be the ‘lone warrior’ with a battle axe taking on Manhub. But if we can get the support of a couple big sponsors like you guys, I really think we can make a difference – or at the very least, get Manhub to change it’s ways and give the Producers and Sponsors back the revenues they are stealing from us.[/QUOTE]
Manhub sends sales. Is it a GayTube.com when it comes to sales? No.
Boycotts by affiliates don’t work because there are still thousands of people out there with gay traffic who have no idea this discussion is happening right now. Hell they could know and most don’t care…that is how MR survived for so long.
We both use Porn Guardian. How many of our full length scenes are up there compared to people that don’t use them? A few, but you won’t find what are essentially rips of the members area. You give any tube too much trouble and you end up on a do not post list (don’t get me started on that since to comply with DMCA you are not supposed to monitor submissions).
It all comes back to protecting your content.
There will always be media buyers willing to buy spots on these sites regardless of the content.
Affiliates could stop promoting it tomorrow and they will just buy more links. That goes for any tube.
Affiliates banning them won’t change a thing… They can buy traffic. Sponsors banning them won’t change anything because they will just sell more ads.
The only meaningful solution is for everybody to DMCA them until they get tired of it and convert to mostly promo clips.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
That is such a defeatist attitude. If we were to follow this line of thinking affiliates would just start shutting down and finding employment outside the home. The tubes are getting all the traffic, the tube are killing sales, sponsors are cutting out the affiliate through email collection, sales are down, conversions suck … let’s all just quit. It’s pointless.
There is no ONE meaningful solution that will work here. I have already shown how talking about the affiliate cookie problem in public has gotten a number of sponsors to change their cookies. I also talked publicly about Buddy Profits collecting email addresses and sending out mailers that cut out the affiliate and Buddy Profits is working on a solution that will include affiliates in those sales, albeit working so very slowly. But they are working on it. So here are two examples of how one little guy can make a difference.
A boycott could have an affect if enough affiliates jumped on board on stop sending Manhub, Haze Cash et al traffic and stopping selling these companies links on their sites.
If enough sponsors had their videos removed from the Manhub system it could have an affect on their inventory.
If sponsors and affiliates got together under one leader or a co-operation of a couple of leaders to create an organized attack, and those people sent out press releases as to what we were doing, others in the business would begin to take notice. The word would spread and it could actually inspire others to join us or to create actions of their own against other tube site owners.
And if Manhub starts to see even a tiny dip in their traffic, they will have to buy more traffic. That cuts into their profits.
If this co-operative group started to strong arm other people in the business, for instance Juicy Boys and Men.com who have both have big banners flying on Manhub over the past two days, then that starts to hurt Manhub a little more. Do this enough times and sponsors start to become afraid of buying ads on Manhub?
Sponsors can report copyright infringement to Google, which could ultimately affect their placement in the SERPS, this means Manhub has to buy even more traffic.
Sponsors can flood Manhub with DMCA notices, which chews into their inventory and creates work for their tube administrators.
And yes, there’s legal action.
The way the Allies were finally able to defeat the Nazis was to come at them from several directions at the same time: the Russians from the east, and the western Allies from France, Holland, and Italy. You can’t fight a war on four fronts.
Likewise, Manhub can’t fight a war on eight fronts simultaneously. It will cost them money, traffic, labour resources, lawyers fees, and chew away at their will.
So far this thread is pretty disappointing. Only a couple of sponsors are speaking in this thread, why aren’t there more sponsors in here saying they’ll join this fight? It’s also pretty disappointing because whenever anyone tries to do anything meaningful, there are always the Debbie Downers pointing out the rain clouds.
Jesse, you’re right about one thing: no sponsor or affiliate (or very few) would be willing to put a sizable chunk on income on the chopping block. And without a majority support from sponsors and affiliates, these initiatives probably won’t amount to much. But it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
[QUOTE=StunnerJesse;126106]Manhub sends sales. Is it a GayTube.com when it comes to sales? No.
Boycotts by affiliates don’t work because there are still thousands of people out there with gay traffic who have no idea this discussion is happening right now. Hell they could know and most don’t care…that is how MR survived for so long.
We both use Porn Guardian. How many of our full length scenes are up there compared to people that don’t use them? A few, but you won’t find what are essentially rips of the members area. You give any tube too much trouble and you end up on a do not post list (don’t get me started on that since to comply with DMCA you are not supposed to monitor submissions).
It all comes back to protecting your content.
There will always be media buyers willing to buy spots on these sites regardless of the content.
Affiliates could stop promoting it tomorrow and they will just buy more links. That goes for any tube.
Affiliates banning them won’t change a thing… They can buy traffic. Sponsors banning them won’t change anything because they will just sell more ads.
The only meaningful solution is for everybody to DMCA them until they get tired of it and convert to mostly promo clips.[/QUOTE]
I can’t actually believe what you’re saying that you should just submit DMCA to them… ignoring the fact that they are:
a) allowing stolen content to be uploaded and do not stop it from happening
b) making money by selling a premium membership so surfers can download stolen videos
c) giving out stolen videos to affiliates to use as promotional content
d) creating a lot of work and cost for copyright owners finding their content and submitting DMCA notices.
Not only that but this is a site that’s clearly no longer protected by DMCA Safe Harbor. You can only claim safe harbour if you’re unaware of the fact you have stolen content and are not making money of it.
And why shouldn’t other affiliates or site owners do the same as ManHub? If simply submitting DMCA notices is the solution then I see no reason not to steal other peoples content and charge members for downloading it. Should you get a DMCA notice you just remove that content. Excellent business strategy, take whatever you want and use it until someone complains… no costs involved just lots of content for free!
Clearly I’m behind the times and no longer understand how business works. I need to start stealing to make money!
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
the traffic networks and the billers/merchant account providers have a role in this too…
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Manhub sends sales. Is it a GayTube.com when it comes to sales? No.
The only meaningful solution is for everybody to DMCA them until they get tired of it and convert to mostly promo clips.
Cool, how about if we take half of Stunner’s content, create a tube site out of selling (fake) downloads of your videos (mixed with hundreds of other sponsors videos to make them trickier to find)? Hey I promise to slip a link in there somewhere and send you a couple sales every once in awhile, I always throw a bone to keep you pesky sponsors off my back. Don’t mind that we’re pissing off and alienating your potential customers. Go ahead and alert Pornguardian. We have people submitting over 500 videos a day so good luck to them keeping up with it all, as soon as we take your videos down they’ll pop right back up again jack-in-the-box style! If you don’t like it and aren’t making enough sales from us, it’s not our freakin’ fault, you should be promoting our Premium affiliate program dude! That way we can pretend to sell downloads of your videos and rake in dough. The only thing is we also cut out affiliates from making money in our Premium network by linking to other paysites for ‘free registration’ where they’ll get hit with $130 in hidden cross sells. But hey we’re making heaps of money, so we’re happy, I’m glad you are happy too buddy. Keep on sending those DMCAs over, we’ll be right on them. 
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Unfortunately I think folks like Jesse & Lloyd are pretty close to reality here. I’m even more defeatist since I doubt their “solutions” are practical either.
IMHO, sponsors have a choice - work with pirates or help the legit affiliates compete with the pirates. Unfortunately even that choice isn’t crystal clear since they generally make more money off the pirates.
I still say lawsuits are most likely to succeed. And DMCA’s to Google. Basically we have to look at what worked with torrent sites - which still exist but aren’t nearly as big a problem as they were a few years ago.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Sorry rawtop, I just don’t get this. It’s the third time I think you state here that sponsors make money out of pirates - can you name who does? Or how does it work?
I just can’t understand how a sponsor can make money out of someone that steals their content and illegally distributes it. And I certainly can’t understand how they can make MORE money off pirates then affiliates.