You Hope You Never Get a Review Like This ...

[dzinerbear]

So I'm reading the current issue of DNA Magazine (#109) out of Australia this morning at breakfast, and there's an article about the Visconti Triplet site. (There's also a 24-page spread of seven Randy Blue models wearing sexy underwear!)

(Oh my, we've got a green sky and torrential downpour here in Toronto. Someone's going to get a twister today.)

The reviewer skewers the Visconti Triplets for never ever showing the guys having sex together, and he essentially calls into question the sanity of people drawn to this sort of thing. "After all, even if moral disdain for incest is arbitrary, you can't get past the fact that most people probably don't want to fuck their bothers and, as a result, don't. Why, then, would anyone want to see brother-fucking on film with an extra brother thrown in?"

Anyway, the review goes on for two pages, veering off into the generic appeal for twin porn. And then, the final kick in the head comes at the end:

" When I joined viscontitriplets.com, I chose the three-day "risk free" membership for $2.95 and was automatically billed for another porn site I did not opt for. Then, a few days later I was charged $29.95 and $39.95 because I didn't cancel the memberships. I requested a refund and for my membership to be cancelled. My membership was immediately cancelled but my refund was denied. So, if you're signing up for any of these sites, be careful."

Ouch!

I'm sure whomever was handling the request for refund had no idea they were talking to a magazine reviewer, but their need to hold onto his money sure didn't pay off this time. And it just goes to show how damaging those pre-checked cross sells really are. Thousands of people are going to read a damning indictment of the whole business.

You can read the whole article here: http://www.dnamagazine.com.au/default.asp?section_id=416

Michael

[gaydemon]

Cross sales are bad. This article actually makes BuddyProfits sound as bad as GayGravy and the rest of them. Very disappointing, specially since if you promote these guys on revshare you certainly won't get any credit for those extra sales.

Why do they use cross sales? Would be nice to see a response from Buddy Profits.

[Squirt]

Didn't pre-checked cross sales get banned by Visa because they are so shady?

That was an awful review and seemingly well deserved.

[Hammerhead]

Cross sales are bad. This article actually makes BuddyProfits sound as bad as GayGravy and the rest of them. Very disappointing, specially since if you promote these guys on revshare you certainly won't get any credit for those extra sales.

Why do they use cross sales? Would be nice to see a response from Buddy Profits.

I would also be interested to hear the response from a BuddyProfits rep about this. I'd like to know if this affects just ViscontiTriplets or all their other sites as well.

I recently pulled my GayGravy ads because of these cross sales, and I'll do the same if some of the BuddyProfits sites are using the same tactics.

[milivanili]

Never promoted them because of the cross sales and I don't promote any site that uses this sneaky tactics, regardless who it is.

[dzinerbear]

But webmasters can't have it both ways. One of the reasons sites employ these tactics is to help finance the $30 and $35 PPS commissions that webmasters want and demand.

If webmasters want to earn $35 PPS then they have to put up with traffic leaks, pop up consoles, cross sells, member area upsells, etc.

It would be nice if sites would give webmasters the option of promoting a tour without cross sells. Do sites do such a thing?

Michael

[Teddy]

But webmasters can't have it both ways. One of the reasons sites employ these tactics is to help finance the $30 and $35 PPS commissions that webmasters want and demand.

If webmasters want to earn $35 PPS then they have to put up with traffic leaks, pop up consoles, cross sells, member area upsells, etc.

It would be nice if sites would give webmasters the option of promoting a tour without cross sells. Do sites do such a thing?

Michael

If a site can't afford to pay $30 and $35 PPS, then it's a really bad business decision to offer them. So I would disagree that PPS costs justify cross sells, pup up consoles, traffic leaks, and member area upsells.

[tigermom]

But webmasters can't have it both ways. One of the reasons sites employ these tactics is to help finance the $30 and $35 PPS commissions that webmasters want and demand.

If webmasters want to earn $35 PPS then they have to put up with traffic leaks, pop up consoles, cross sells, member area upsells, etc.

It would be nice if sites would give webmasters the option of promoting a tour without cross sells. Do sites do such a thing?

Michael

I know that several programs now offer the option to turn x-sales off (and then the PPS payment is lowered). I think it's not fair to use X-sales on a revshare program though.

[gaydemon]

I totally agree. If you can't afford it, then don't do it. The whole PPS setup feeds into crap sites, bad business tactics and shady billing.


If a site can't afford to pay $30 and $35 PPS, then it's a really bad business decision to offer them. So I would disagree that PPS costs justify cross sells, pup up consoles, traffic leaks, and member area upsells.

[SimBuddyProfits]

Great discussion... From Buddy's perspective... Yes, we do cross sells. But keep in mind that there is right way to do cross sells. Nothing is hidden. I hope you don't lump us in with those that do it the wrong way. Our approach and policy has always been to be upfront, communicate clearly, meet all legal and credit card provider requirements and back it all upwith really good customer support. Because of our approach we have never had any affiliate complaints to date. Do we get some complaints about this? Yes, occasionally we get a few. But because we do cross sales the right way, the number is small. Plus, we have a great customer service team who always ensures the customer problem is solved fairly. Can we do a better job at cross sells? For certain. We are always looking for ways to do things bettere and we will be testingdifferent approaches in the coming months to do just that.

http://www.gammae.com/uploads/veevee/ViscontiJoin.jpg

[gaydemon]

Thanks Simon for taking the time to explain. :cool:

[Squirt]

Do we get some complaints about this? Yes, occasionally we get a few. But because we do cross sales the right way, the number is small.

Why does just one of your servers (the one that hosts buddyprofits) have 33 different billing company storefronts that list 33 different billing descriptors on each FAQ page?

http://www.33famecc.com
http://www.77chargezu.com
http://www.Billfame.com
http://www.Billfb.com
http://www.ccwebill.com
http://www.cconlinepay.com
http://www.Chargezu.com
http://www.Famebill.com
http://www.Famecare.com
http://www.Famecc.com
http://www.Fbbill.com
http://www.Fbbill.com
http://www.Fbcharge.com
http://www.Fbluebill.com
http://www.Fbluesite.com
http://www.Ffbillweb.com
http://www.Myfbnet.com
http://www.Myfbweb.com
http://www.Pay-billfame.com
http://www.Pay-famebill.com
http://www.Pay-fbcharge.com
http://www.Pay-myfbnet.com
http://www.Pay-zubbpay.com
http://www.Pay-zubill.com
http://www.Payfame.com
http://www.Webccpay.com
http://www.Yourwebcc.com
http://www.Zcchelp.com
http://www.Zubbpay.com
http://www.Zubill.com
http://www.Zucare.com
http://www.Zucharge.com
http://www.Zusupport.com


Why are customers told they will be charged $25 (http://www.zucare.com/privacy.php) to access their information on these storefront sites in the privacy section?

It would seem that doing cross sales the right way would entail one biller the customer has to deal with to cancel all subscriptions, not multiple store billers, with different billing descriptors, and charges to access their info.

You have WayBackMachine blocked (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.viscontitriplets.com) from archiving the Visconti site thus nobody can check how long you've used 77chargezu.com as your biller on the triplets site, but you could easily change it to any one of your other 33 billers at any time right? That would make if very difficult for customers to track what site a charge came from. With your 33 different billing entities you could possibly change billers every day, if you please, at the click of a mouse.

Some of your business practices with storefront sites mimic that of GayPay found in this thread. (http://www.gaydemon.biz/showthread.php?t=6643&page=2&highlight=gaypay)

I'm busy and have to get back to work but I would appreciate if you could answer the above questions and put our minds at ease.

[milivanili]

This is very shady practice:

I've purchased memberships from Buddyprofits before and Nextdoor Buddies was billed by one company, and the other site by another company... plus removing yourself from the recurring option was very tricky and yet I am not that stupid...

http://www.buddy-support.com/
http://yourccpay.com/

Why do users have to cancel through 2 different sites?

Plus your TOS states this: all cancellations must be entered at least 24 hours before the re-bill date.

Who reads TOS, really?!

[Squirt]

Looks like they've already changed the biller for the triplets site today, it's now zcchelp.com (http://www.zcchelp.com) compared to earlier today in their previous post here (http://www.gaydemon.biz/showpost.php?p=42402&postcount=10) where it was 77chargezu.com (http://www.77chargezu.com) .. both domains and pages of which are hosted on the buddyprofits server.

Do they have a script that autochanges their biller every day on Cypress time?

[milivanili]

Funny thing is that people will still promote it...

[gaydemon]

Simon? Any explenation to all those billing fronts? :no:

[Squirt]

They've changed their biller again. Now it's ZUBILL.COM... also hosted on the buddyprofits server. That's three different biller names on the join page in under 24 hours.

You have to wonder how they can accurately track affiliate sales with changing billers multiple times per day.

[GPallan]

i would hardly call their approach to cross billing as "the right way" as SimBuddyProfits put it. who is going to read all that text in the table on the right before clicking "click here to purchase"? that text just looks like a privacy policy or a disclosure statement, which as we all know, no one ever reads

[milivanili]

Yes, cleverly disguised as PURCHASE INFORMATION, instead of something like ADDITIONAL OFFER or similar...

I am glad I never touched them, even though I might have lost thousands of $$$ for not promoting them.

[Jeff@UKScallyLads]

Changing billers several times a day? I don't think I've ever even heard of that before. Would be nice to hear an explanation of this indeed.

[Teddy]

This is a bit of a newbie question. other than the impact on members, how does changing billers impact affiliates?