View Full Version : "Fake Affiliates"
TropixxxMichael
03-18-2008, 09:09 PM
Ok, so I could not sleep tonight after all the excitement of the last few days so I decided to go looking into my affiliate reports on CCBill.
I found a few "affiliates" that don't send traffic, and the only sale seems to be one original sale, and then the rebills.
It would seem odd that there is no traffic, yet they had a sale right away.
I can only assume they signed up for the affiliate program and then signed up under their own ID number so that they get credit for their own sale and get paid for the rebills. (Or is there another explanation I am missing?)
Amazing the length that some people go to save a few bucks.
probably smart surfers ;)
marcjacob
03-18-2008, 09:14 PM
I would interested to hear the answer too.
I would guess its webmasters trying to saving 50%, if it was credit card fraud Id expect to see more transactions. Unless of course their testing to see if they can pull it off. But over multiple months that would seem unlikely.
I think you have a webmaster trying to save a few bucks.
Is that a bad thing though? We should get some perks. You could see it as an employee discount? Personally Id email you and ask to see inside the site. Most decent sites will be only to pleased to show a potential affiliate their members area.
marcjacob
03-18-2008, 09:15 PM
probably smart surfers ;)
LOL You posted as I did!
Yeah it could be, but that would be a real smart surfer. If they are that smart were all fucked lol
I think most programs would consider that webmaster fraud. That is if you can prove its the same person.
However, if you were to ask the subscriber in question, he may be embarrassed or offended and cancel or even worse, do a chargeback. Then where are you? Worse off than if you just left him alone.
Gaystoryman
03-18-2008, 09:50 PM
I don't see it as webmaster fraud at all. I mean if it is the affiliate who signed up, paid the price, and enjoys the site, it is no different than some employee taking advantage of a store employee discount offer.
Now if there was a chargeback or he was posting the user/pswd all over then yeah, but if he is rebilling, it is either a happy customer who found a way to get a discount or my damn wife, trying to get more porn :whip:
marcjacob
03-18-2008, 11:01 PM
I dont think Ive ever done it, but I sure as hell would. I wouldnt consider it fraud at all. Its a perk of the job. Any program who wanted to loose my sales over that would be welcome :)
basschick
03-18-2008, 11:37 PM
TropixxxMichael - it's easy to go into the ccbill interface and see the names of the customer who signed up under the affiliates as well as their addresses, so it's pretty easy to see if it's the same person as the affiliate.
also if they charge back, could be a mess. so why not check and see if the affiilate and subscriber are the same name, or at least in the same city.
other programs DO consider this fraud and grounds for termination, btw. consider this: why should you pay someone 50% for joining your site?
Gaystoryman
03-19-2008, 12:20 AM
TropixxxMichael - it's easy to go into the ccbill interface and see the names of the customer who signed up under the affiliates as well as their addresses, so it's pretty easy to see if it's the same person as the affiliate.
also if they charge back, could be a mess. so why not check and see if the affiilate and subscriber are the same name, or at least in the same city.
other programs DO consider this fraud and grounds for termination, btw. consider this: why should you pay someone 50% for joining your site?
Actually Patti I disagree. The sponsor is not 'paying' anyone to join, they are giving back half the money the guy paid, that's not a payment, merely a nice discount or refund for the hope that they guy will also get other sign ups.
Fact is too, that 50% kept by the sponsor wouldn't exist for him/her if the guy didn't buy.
basschick
03-19-2008, 12:24 AM
well, whether you agree or disagree, i can tell you this - over 90% of affiliate programs will term an affiliate for doing this.
Actually Patti I disagree. The sponsor is not 'paying' anyone to join, they are giving back half the money the guy paid, that's not a payment, merely a nice discount or refund for the hope that they guy will also get other sign ups.
Fact is too, that 50% kept by the sponsor wouldn't exist for him/her if the guy didn't buy.
gaydemon_jr
03-19-2008, 05:39 AM
I've made a freesite with a new sponsor and only made 1 sale with them. Then as the freesite fizzles out to the back of the link lists, nobody will ever find it again. Could be that?
A few years ago I had an account at a really large sponsor temporarily put on hold due to suspected fraud. Of course I immediately contacted the sponsor and they told me the name of the cardholder for the transaction in question.
It was my partner! He told me he clicked through an ad I had up for a new site I was promoting and bought a membership a few days later. He didn't realize what he had done.
I assume the transaction was triggered because we share the same IP for our Internet connection.
The sponsor looked at my account history and understood it was an honest mistake and released the hold.
He never did that again after I bitch slapped him a few times. :whip:
abostonboy
03-19-2008, 02:19 PM
Michael,
This is a tough call. When I use to market revshare as an affiliate, I would always ask for members access before I marketed the site. Sometimes I would email the program and never hear back. If I thought the site was good and wanted to market, many times I joined before sending traffic. Other times I got a reply back saying we don't give potential affiliates temp access. Then I pretty much just didn't market the site. Other times I got a temp PW and decided to if I wanted to market the site based on what I saw.
As affiliate rep I see this happen. Maybe it is a surfer. Maybe it is an adult webmaster that wants a 50% discount. Maybe it's a webmaster that wants to check the site out before he markets it and it's either on his "things to do list" or he just didn't like the site.
But, you do have the email address and MAYBE a domain that he owns. Why don't you toss that "affiliate" an email and see if he needs anything to help market your site? I did that once and got a damn good affiliate. He joined to check out the site and just got busy with with other projects. When I reminded him by the email he was like, "OH shit! BlakeMason! I joined the site, loved it, and totally forgot to market it!". Now he's sending 30 sales a month.
basschick
03-19-2008, 02:25 PM
anthony probably got it right. smaller webmasters might only do 1 freesite or 1 gallery using a certain sponsor. then they hold off a while, till the traffic to that freesite or gallery is pretty much over. and if they see only 1 join, they might not bother to post that sponsor again.
abostonboy
03-19-2008, 02:34 PM
Oh hell. Like five years ago, I joined boys pissing under my own account just to see if the site was any good before i marketed it. I decided to market the site. Like two years later when I was checking stats, I noticed that someone had been a member nearly two years. Thought that was strange as the site was not that good. Long story short... It was me! Think I visited the site only one time in two years.
TropixxxMichael
03-19-2008, 03:02 PM
Oh hell. Like five years ago, I joined boys pissing under my own account just to see if the site was any good before i marketed it. I decided to market the site. Like two years later when I was checking stats, I noticed that someone had been a member nearly two years. Thought that was strange as the site was not that good. Long story short... It was me! Think I visited the site only one time in two years.
LOL...ok, that made me laugh. Some great advice people...thanks.
abostonboy
03-19-2008, 03:07 PM
Seriously Michael that really did happen. We have "affiliates" like that. Send one click and get a join. Not sure if they are affiliates or surfers. But, it happens so rarely that I would rather spend my time helping existing affiliates or getting new ones.
TropixxxMichael
03-19-2008, 03:13 PM
We have "affiliates" like that. Send one click and get a join. Not sure if they are affiliates or surfers. But, it happens so rarely that I would rather spend my time helping existing affiliates or getting new ones.
Agreed, I just thought it was odd and was wondering what was happening. Trust me, I have a lot better things to do with my time then wonder if someone is trying to score a 50% discount. But still, I will watch them to make sure they don't start sending more sales without any traffic, as that could be a bad sign from what I am understanding.
AlexManifestMan
03-19-2008, 03:27 PM
If not fraud in practice, it is fraud in intent. That is good enough for me. That is why we do not automatically allow anyone to join our without review.
basschick
03-19-2008, 03:40 PM
consider if an affiliate did this on a pay per sale program. it would seem quite different if you were paying someone $35 for a $2.95 trial that they themselves bought.
Gaystoryman
03-19-2008, 03:52 PM
consider if an affiliate did this on a pay per sale program. it would seem quite different if you were paying someone $35 for a $2.95 trial that they themselves bought.
See, there I agree 100%. That is, in my mind, what 'fraud' means, as defined in a legal sense. I just don't see it as such when it is revshare. But hey, just one of the reasons why I don't run a paysite, way too much to worry about.
abostonboy
03-19-2008, 03:52 PM
consider if an affiliate did this on a pay per sale program. it would seem quite different if you were paying someone $35 for a $2.95 trial that they themselves bought.
Agreed. That's why PPS have to have much higher fraud prevention.
basschick
03-19-2008, 03:57 PM
the problem is that some of the guys who do this charge back after they get paid - the can rebill for months, get all checks owed, then call their bank and reverse the charges. if they do it at enough programs, they can get a nice little sum AND spend months enjoying porn.
See, there I agree 100%. That is, in my mind, what 'fraud' means, as defined in a legal sense. I just don't see it as such when it is revshare. But hey, just one of the reasons why I don't run a paysite, way too much to worry about.
Gaystoryman
03-19-2008, 04:05 PM
the problem is that some of the guys who do this charge back after they get paid - the can rebill for months, get all checks owed, then call their bank and reverse the charges. if they do it at enough programs, they can get a nice little sum AND spend months enjoying porn.
On that scenario, yeah it is fraud, but that is perhaps more of an issue due to the way the Credit Card companies handle chargebacks. They make it easy for such crooks to do those things, it is just that as originally stated, I don't see it as fraud. The other actions, yes, but I don't know, what is 100% fool proof?
RottenRay
03-19-2008, 06:27 PM
Y'all are right, this IS a tough call...
Most PROCESSORS PROHIBIT affiliates signing up under their own affilate code.
Most affiliate programs don't really care, so long as you fulfill your commitment - 7 days, one month, yadda-yadda - what they're guarding against are chargebacks on day # 6 or day # 29.
Remember our business climate - with daily updates at some directories, it doesn't take a freesite long to "age out" and turn non-revenue.
Is it really wrong?
Technically, yes - but there are webmasters (myself as an example) who WILL occassionally join a site to see if it's worth promoting.
Some of these have turned into long-term cash cows - others have been just a waste of money. But I've never cancelled before my original term was up, and I've never signed up under my own code.
I think if you wanted to look at it from a legal point of view, it doesn't matter WHOSE affilate code you sign up under, so long as you don't "raid" the site and then seek a full refund.
Smart Surfers - There are a lot of them out and about these days. It wouldn't really matter if they just spewed a single site per sponsor, signed up there, paid their bill, and left it at that. Unfortunately, some of these clowns run until day # 29, ask for a refund, and raid the site in the mean time. This comes in a lot more from Europe than US or Canada.
....