View Full Version : A way to check if a user have a CC without billing him
I'm thinking about providing a free access to a site to upsell in the member area access to some paysites I'm working as an affiliate but I need a way to check if members signing up have a CC. I don't want to use AVS verification because of they charge hidden fees (rebills and similars) and the biggest had some payment issues in the last months. What do you suggest to do? Is there a way to check if a user have a valid cc without billing him?
gaybucks_chip
08-23-2008, 03:00 AM
You can do what's called a "mod-10" check. This uses basically a checksum that determines whether the credit card number is valid by adding the values of the alternate digits together and checking the end digit of the card. Here's an example of some PHP code that will do this:
http://www.php.happycodings.com/Credit_Cards/code5.html
You can also determine what kind of card it is from the first digit of the account number; Amex is 3, Visa 4, Mastercard 5, Discover 6. (Sorry, I don't know the ones for JCB or Diners or the other cards.)
Keep in mind neither of these will tell you that it's a legit card, that there's credit available on the card, or anything like that... only that the numbers entered match the formula the card issuers agreed upon to validate that the numbers add up to the correct checksum and numbers haven't been transposed.
If you want to actually validate that the card is active, the only way you could do that would be to have a merchant account and then authorize the card for a dollar. You wouldn't actually settle the charge, so the customer would never get charged, but it would put a hold on his account for a few days. Likely the bank would charge you 25 cents or something for each authorization attempt.
This is actually an interesting idea; we are working on some free membership sites we're developing as traffic tools and I might end up doing something like this.
One other thing: Even if you have no merchant account, you'd have to have a secure cert on your server, and you wouldn't be able to retain the card numbers (unless you want to go through a really anal security procedure), otherwise you'd be in violation of Visa regs.
Thanks for the help Chip
I'm contacting lots of cc processors to ask them what is the price for this kind of service. Of course I don't want any kind of CC database or anything like that! It is a big security problem! And mod-10 check isn't enough for my needs.
I just need to validate the CC and have a list of potential customers with a valid cc.
Do you know any cc processor charging less than 0.25$ every validation? I'm trying to find the cheapest :)
marcjacob
08-23-2008, 04:53 AM
I think your much better charging them $1 anyway. With the free avs's you have the constant problem of surfers wondering why you want their credit card if its free and probably thinking its a scam.
I think your much better charging them $1 anyway. With the free avs's you have the constant problem of surfers wondering why you want their credit card if its free and probably thinking its a scam.
I will try both the options to know what will convert better :)
marcjacob
08-23-2008, 06:02 AM
I will try both the options to know what will convert better :)
Would you be willing to post your results? Just say which is best as I know you wont want to divulge actual figures but Id be very interested to know which perform best overall :)
Would you be willing to post your results? Just say which is best as I know you wont want to divulge actual figures but Id be very interested to know which perform best overall :)
Tests will take some months :) I need to configure and setup all and to advertise a little the site so remember me that next year :)
gaybucks_chip
08-23-2008, 07:39 AM
You will probably have a lot more options as far as merchant credit card accounts, being outside the US. Here, there are only about three that will process for adult membership sites.
I don't really know much about the european processing markets, but I do know that, at least as of a couple years ago, Deutche Bank and some large bank in the Netherlands (don't remember the name) are both major processors that handle adult membership sites.
As far as the authorization cost, you may find some processors that are less, but as I think about it, I think the challenge will be finding a processor who will let you to do a bazillion authorizations but no actual sales... they make their $ off of the percentage of the sales processed, not the incremental/transactional costs of authorizations or transactions.
Definitely, keep in touch... if you find a solution, I'd really like to know what you come up with.
abostonboy
08-23-2008, 10:36 AM
Very few processors will let you charge under $3. I believe with CCbill and Epoch you need a really good history to do that.
rawTOP
08-23-2008, 12:13 PM
What you want to do is an authorization. Credit cards can either be charged directly (one step process) or you can put a authorization through and then do a delayed capture at a later time (within 30 days). If you ship a physical product that's how you're required to do it since you're not allowed to charge the card until you ship the product.
An authorization puts a hold on the card for that amount in funds for 30 days. So if you do an authorization for $1, you've confirmed the credit card is valid (completely - not just the number is a valid credit card number). If you don't do the delayed capture they'll never see anything on their statement and the $1 authorization is not going to hurt their ability to use their card.
abostonboy
08-23-2008, 02:04 PM
What you want to do is an authorization. Credit cards can either be charged directly (one step process) or you can put a authorization through and then do a delayed capture at a later time (within 30 days). If you ship a physical product that's how you're required to do it since you're not allowed to charge the card until you ship the product.
An authorization puts a hold on the card for that amount in funds for 30 days. So if you do an authorization for $1, you've confirmed the credit card is valid (completely - not just the number is a valid credit card number). If you don't do the delayed capture they'll never see anything on their statement and the $1 authorization is not going to hurt their ability to use their card.
The problem is finding an adult processor that will let you do that.
rawTOP
08-23-2008, 02:18 PM
The problem is finding an adult processor that will let you do that.
Any that process money for physical DVD sales are required by law to support authorizations / delayed captures... You can't legally charge a CC until you ship the product.
gaybucks_chip
08-23-2008, 04:27 PM
No, Lloyd's point (and mine in an earlier post) is that you are very unlikely to find a processor who will let you do a bazillion authorizations but no (or few) actual settled sales. The processors make their money on a small percentage of the sale amount and if the only transactions are authorizations, the processor makes no money. Not to mention that generally the merchant accounts for membership sites have a fairly high monthly minimum in sales volume.
And you can't use a physical product merchant account to process authorizations for a membership websites; they are different Visa classifications, and since adult membership websites are considered high risk, processing even authorizations for those on a physical product account would at best get your account terminated and at worst get you on TMF.
abostonboy
08-23-2008, 06:32 PM
And you can't use a physical product merchant account to process authorizations for a membership websites; they are different Visa classifications, and since adult membership websites are considered high risk, processing even authorizations for those on a physical product account would at best get your account terminated and at worst get you on TMF.
That's my point. I am not even sure that CCbill or Epoch allows $1.00 trials to the masses. I believe, and I could be wrong, that you have to have a real high volume and a good track record.
NEVER use a merchant account for physical products on Membership sites.
gaybucks_chip
08-23-2008, 08:16 PM
btw, to correct some misinformation stated earlier, in general, an authorization-only transaction only holds funds for a maximum of 10 days and in many cases 7 or 5 or even less.
Can you imagine the outrage people would have if they had funds in their checking accounts held for 30 days for a transaction that was authorized but never completed, or, for example, for a deposit on a rental car?
I sent an email to 10 credit card processors (ccbill, epoch, ...) asking about that. Maybe they will answer to me soon. I'll let you know :)
rawTOP
08-24-2008, 06:19 AM
btw, to correct some misinformation stated earlier, in general, an authorization-only transaction only holds funds for a maximum of 10 days and in many cases 7 or 5 or even less.
The documentation I've seen (about 4 years ago from Verisign) talked about the authorization being valid for 30 days. It's possible the funds aren't held for that period of time, but then how would the authorization still be valid?
Car rental companies are a good case - they take an authorization and charge your card when you return the car. Having done long-term rentals in the past the longest rental is 30 days - I always thought this was connected with the authorization expiring after 30 days...
gaybucks_chip
08-24-2008, 06:39 AM
I stand corrected.
I looked it up, and you are correct... the authorization itself is good for 30 days... but the hold on the funds is only good for 3 days, and so the acquiring bank charges a higher rate if the transaction is not settled within 3 days of authorization.
So what happens, as I understand it, is that the merchant can present the transaction any time up to 30 days after authorization, and the issuing bank will guarantee settlement. So that is one of the ways that you can end up "over limit" on a credit transaction, or overdrawn on a debit transaction... the funds hold has expired, but the settlement guarantee is still in place, so the issuing bank can't refuse the transaction.
Complicated.