The Stalinist moderation on this board

[DirtyRatStudios]

It's starting to feel like posting on a board in the cold-war era Soviet Union.

Imagine... you are having a relaxing discussion with a particular person in two completely different threads on a Sunday afternoon, you happen to mention safer sex education in a thread that is about webmasters learning (the point being: are webmasters responsible for educating anyone, including other webmasters?), and immediately you are slapped down by a moderator for posting 'offtopic' about bareback and hijacking 'her' thread.

I don't believe that any other subject would be deemed 'off-topic' in this way. This is censorship and intimidation to prevent certain subjects even being referred to.

This moderation is WAY over the top.

[rawTOP]

So, do they get the uniforms to go along with that? Fascists always have the hottest and best dressed security personnel... 666

Personally I'm fine with the level of moderation. Sometimes it's a little over the top, sometimes it's a bit lax - which about what you'd expect - humans aren't perfect.

[TropixxxMichael]

So, do they get the uniforms to go along with that? Fascists always have the hottest and best dressed security personnel... 666
.

I could not agree more.

[Gaystoryman]

Personally, I don't do the high heel thing, maybe I can borrow a pair of those hob nailed storm trooper boots from someone? Lloyd, Patti, you got any spare one's in a size 12? whistle lol

[DirtyRatStudios]

I know they say Americans have a poor grasp of history and geography outside of their own country but this takes the biscuit :)

[Squirt]

http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/2005/11/authentic_drama_queen.jpg




It's starting to feel like posting on a board in the cold-war era Soviet Union.

Imagine... you are having a relaxing discussion with a particular person in two completely different threads on a Sunday afternoon, you happen to mention safer sex education in a thread that is about webmasters learning (the point being: are webmasters responsible for educating anyone, including other webmasters?), and immediately you are slapped down by a moderator for posting 'offtopic' about bareback and hijacking 'her' thread.

I don't believe that any other subject would be deemed 'off-topic' in this way. This is censorship and intimidation to prevent certain subjects even being referred to.

This moderation is WAY over the top.

[gaydemon]

Well the fact that this, your thread is on here without any complaints or moderation surely shows that it isnt a Stalinist board?

However I used to be a Marxist in my youth.. That I can only blame on youth and stupidity.

I do think it seemed a bit odd of you to bring up Bareback in a thread that had nothing to do with Barebacking what so ever.

Not sure how many times I will have to tell you this.

There is no conspiracy against you, all moderators on here all have very different views on Barebacking and the board does not promote one before the other. You seem to have got in your head that we collectively endorce bareback. We don't. Some of us are against others dont mind it or promote it.

I'm getting really fed up with explaining this. It seems to me, that you really can't let it go. We discussed bareback, no one agreed. Now move on.

Using that bareback thread as a reference in totally unrelated threads is pointless and irritating.

[gaybucks_chip]

Gary,

I'm sorry that you aren't happy with the quality and tone of the moderation here. As I've said in another thread, being a moderator is a thankless job because someone is always mad at you. Either you are doing too much, or you aren't doing enough.

When Bjorn, Lloyd, and Patti discussed starting the board, it was because of the deplorably incompetent moderation (or, rather, lack thereof) going on at GMS and the uncontrolled flaming and fighting going on, making the community all but unusable. This after Mark had repeatedly said that he wanted a community that was pleasant and courteous and focused on business.

So one of the first things that they set out (before I came on board as a moderator) was that flaming, name-calling, and other offensive posting would not be permitted.

In case you've forgotten, the relevant portion of the terms you agreed to when you signed up are as follows:


We expect all members to be courteous. It's fine to disagree but members who call anyone names or insult them in any way will be banned. Posting unpleasant and disruptive posts or threats or hate comments against any group of people will result in the poster being permanantly banned.

I know that you've stated that we Americans simply don't "get it" and that British discussion is inherently (from our perspective) rude and nasty, but my own experience (and that of Bjorn, who has lived there for 11 years) is that, if anything, British people are *more* polite and courteous than Americans. But whether it's a cultural difference, a personal style, or whatever doesn't matter. What does matter is that this is a private community for business owners (whether affiliates or sponsors or content producers or other industry-related people) who are here to discuss business.

Controversial discussions are fine, and disagreements are also fine. What isn't fine are disagreements that shift from the subject material into personal attacks, flaming, and the like.

In other words, saying "I strongly disagree with what you've said, and I can't understand how you can hold that position" is one thing; saying "You're an asshole and obviously stupid" is not. The first helps the others in the community understand your objection; the second merely puts the poster on the defensive without providing any substantive material to further the discussion. (Note that the above is an example and not intended as something you or anyone else has said.)

The thing you have to remember is that this *is* a private community. No one is guaranteed the right to free speech here, and the board owners may do whatever they sees fit to maintain the community. However, the board owners also understand that it *is* the community that makes this board work, and so they and the moderators do their best to listen to the community and moderate appropriately.

Now... I should also point out that before JP banned me at GMS, I was also very vocal about the policy there... but here's the difference: I was simply asking them to explain what the policy was (since they didn't have one in writing) and to be consistent in the enforcement of it. JP didn't like the fact that someone was questioning his arbitrary application of "rules" that he made up on the spot. I was willing to agree to whatever rules were set, but I just wanted to understand what they were. When posts that discussed policy that didn't go in the direction that Mark and JP wanted them to go started getting removed... well, that was something that, to me, went directly to the core of the community's integrity. So I pointed that out, JP didn't like it, and I got banned.

You will not get banned for creating a thread such as this one, and, in fact, I think that the community as a whole probably appreciates the opportunity to clarify their understanding of the policy.

But... anyone who repeatedly posts messages that are angry, hurtful to other members, argumentative, or otherwise disruptive to the community *will* get warned, suspended, and eventually banned. This isn't personal, and applies to anyone who repeatedly disrupts the community.

I don't consider that Stalinist-style moderation. But that's my opinion, and I also respect yours.

[marcjacob]

I think moderation is about right here. I just got told off for being horrible to Squirt (which was fair enough), if it was like you say id be banned Garry... You just got told not to start the bb thing in a thread that wasnt about that. You just say "fair enough" and move on..

[basschick]

and keep in mind that he was told he was welcome to open his own thread. we weren't trying to squelch him - just to keep the thread on topic.


I think moderation is about right here. I just got told off for being horrible to Squirt (which was fair enough), if it was like you say id be banned Garry... You just got told not to start the bb thing in a thread that wasnt about that. You just say "fair enough" and move on..

[DirtyRatStudios]

Using that bareback thread as a reference in totally unrelated threads is pointless and irritating.

Please stop misrepresenting me. Show me where I said the word 'bareback' in that thread? I didn't reference any particular other thread.

M y EXACT words as we were discussing webmasters educating other webmasters were:

"I hear people on here saying no we in the porn industry are not responsible for teaching people about safer sex, so why should we teach newbie webmasters how to become competitors?"

The moderation was pointless and irritating I would say. That's probably the idea though?

[gaybucks_chip]

I don't think I saw the thread in question, but if the thread was about marketing tools for newbie webmasters or some such, then I doubt a discussion of safer sex (or whether or not it's our responsibility as an industry to share info about safer sex) would be on-topic in that thread. A better choice would be to say something like "I believe that any new webmaster should consider the issue of safer sex and barebacking. There's a thread -here- that talks about that and I hope you'll read it.

Keeping threads on topic is one of the toughest jobs for moderators, and honestly, I know that I've accidentally hijacked at least a few threads myself, so we all do it occasionally. If all of our community members can accept and understand that all anyone is trying to do is keep things civil and on-topic, there really shouldn't be anything to disagree about.

[DirtyRatStudios]

Gary,

What isn't fine are disagreements that shift from the subject material into personal attacks, flaming, and the like.

See above.The conversation was going just fine until Basschick totally over reacted to me mentioning the words 'safer sex'. I even said that I was playing 'devil's advocate' for god's sake. We were talking about education.

I'm sick of everything I say being picked on and then it being completely misrepresented when I complain. This thread is a perfect example. I get the impression that the people commenting haven't even read the original thread.

[DirtyRatStudios]

I don't think I saw the thread in question

So you admit you probably never even saw the thread we're discussing? You're just assuming it was a flame war and I was in the wrong.

[rawTOP]

I gotta agree with Dirty Rat on this one (oddly enough)... The thread in question was about tweaking and testing marketing strategies. Michael mentioned that he wished he could collaborate more with other people - that working alone leads you to try weird things that others know won't work, but they don't say anything 'cause the relationships aren't set up like that. That lead to Dirty Rat saying something about why is it his job to train his competitors? (I think he was being Devil's advocate at that point.) He dropped the analogy that if we don't have to tell users about safe sex, why do we need to tell our competitors our business strategy? I'm pretty sensitive on the bareback issue and I didn't take it as a revival of the bareback topic at all. I shot back that the bareback thread made it clear we weren't competitors - at least not direct competitors, and then we continued talking about the benefits of boards like this to help each of us in our weak areas...

The topic wandered off topic from testing different strategies to working in a collaborative way to improve business strategies. It wasn't drifting toward bareback at all - those were passing comments at best.

Frankly, I'm sorta tired of all the bickering lately. Let's just try to ignore what we don't like about each other instead of calling them on it... The bickering gets old really quick. There's so much good stuff on this board, I want to continue to find it enjoyable to read stuff here...

[gaybucks_chip]

Gary,

I don't know how to say this more clearly without being rude, which I really don't believe is appropriate.

Gaydemon's moderation policies are established, and aren't going to change.

Continuing to complain about the moderation policies will not get them changed, as very, very few people in the community are objecting to the policies as they are.

Alcoholics Anonymous has a humorous (but true) statement which says

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and each time expecting different results."

I have also found the thread in question and read it , and I disagree with you that Basschick overreacted.

If you are unhappy with the moderation policies here, there are basically two choices:

1. Learn to live with them.
2. Stop posting at Gaydemon.

The moderators have all discussed the situation, and I don't think anyone in that group believes that you've been treated unfairly. You may not agree with that, but the moderators are the ones who set and enforce the policies here, so that's essentially the place where the buck stops.

I really hope that you will continue to stay in the community, since we benefit from your knowledge and experience, and you've contributed a lot of useful and helpful information to the community. I also happen to agree with your view on barebacking (as do the majority of the other moderators) and believe that this viewpoint does need to be shared, but as a moderator, I have to be tolerant of other viewpoints as well, and as a community member, I have to do my best to always treat others in the community with courtesy.

There really isn't anything else I can think of to say. I don't know if the other moderators and owners will agree with everything I've said but I know that there is substantial agreement on the above points.

I hope that helps to clarify things.

[DirtyRatStudios]

I know, I took your comment on being competitors as a tongue in cheek remark.

Then Basschick, who hadn't posted in 'her' thread for more than SEVEN HOURS up to that point, popped up with a reply WITHIN SIX MINUTES of your post and the mention of the word [censored]. Perhaps all the moderators have the word [censored] on some kind of email or text alert which is a very interesting situation. Or maybe it was complete coincidence.

[Gaystoryman]

Frankly, I'm sorta tired of all the bickering lately. Let's just try to ignore what we don't like about each other instead of calling them on it... The bickering gets old really quick. There's so much good stuff on this board, I want to continue to find it enjoyable to read stuff here...

As a member of this board, I agree with RawTop


I really hope that you will continue to stay in the community, since we benefit from your knowledge and experience, and you've contributed a lot of useful and helpful information to the community. I also happen to agree with your view on barebacking (as do the majority of the other moderators) and believe that this viewpoint does need to be shared, but as a moderator, I have to be tolerant of other viewpoints as well, and as a community member, I have to do my best to always treat others in the community with courtesy.

As a moderator I agree with Chip.


Then Basschick, who hadn't posted in 'her' thread for more than SEVEN HOURS up to that point, popped up with a reply WITHIN SIX MINUTES of your post and the mention of the word [censored]. Perhaps all the moderators have the word [censored] on some kind of email or text alert which is a very interesting situation. Or maybe it was complete coincidence.

And so everyone knows, the [censored] isn't from any moderator, and frankly Gary, enough. You don't like it here, no one is forcing you to stay a member.

[basschick]

basschick was sound asleep in bed. when i wake up, i check my email and the board, but i DO sleep sometimes you know ;)


I know, I took your comment on being competitors as a tongue in cheek remark.

Then Basschick, who hadn't posted in 'her' thread for more than SEVEN HOURS up to that point, popped up with a reply WITHIN SIX MINUTES of your post and the mention of the word [censored]. Perhaps all the moderators have the word [censored] on some kind of email or text alert which is a very interesting situation. Or maybe it was complete coincidence.

[DirtyRatStudios]

There has been considerable discussion of bareback on this board in the last week. Whereas I have been censured today for daring to say the words 'safer sex' in a discussion about education where, in one sentence only, I drew an analogy between educating fellow webmasters and educating the public.

There was no drama or flames involved. I was talking with someone called 'RawTop' but the discussion was not about bareback. It was an enjoyable discussion on a Sunday afternoon, until the moderation started.

It's pathetic but you're all backing it and, as usual on boards, half the people who are commenting don't seem to have even read the original thread, but are just getting a thrill running in and putting the boot in and mouthing off while they're part of the majority and there's no risk to themselves.

So no I don't think there's much point continuing to post in an environment where something that minor is considered an offence. It's way too authoritarian and I feel very uneasy about all the things that have happened and been said about discussion and debate over the past ten days. To the extent where I no longer feel free to post my opinion anymore.

I've been accused of trying to 'make' people change their opinion through discussion (good heavens call the terrorist squad) but also told to not to continue debating a subject because no one 'ever' changed their opinion due to discussion.

It's been stated that the standard of debate used in the British House of Commons is not of a high enough standard for this board. Can I suggest Zimbabwe??

I should have stopped posting two weeks ago but was persuaded to continue. If I stay, it will just be the same people pecking at everything I write. This has been going on with the same individuals for years. It doesn't matter how much you contribute, how many threads you start, how genuine you are about something. Far better to spend my time creating content for my own sites and not get upset by the kind of shit that's been going on for the last ten days.

There you go, you're all free to promote as much bareback as you want, with no regard or thought for the consequences. I won't be around to occasionally criticise or tweak your conscience.

[archer]

given that this is a gay board, surely there must be a male equivalent to this ;) looking at anne coulter in any form makes me wanna barf


I could not agree more.

[gaybucks_chip]

Gary,

I'm really sorry you feel that way, but of course it's your decision. It's a loss to this board to have you leave the community.

I do hope you will reconsider. No one is trying to limit your ability to express your opinions, only that you express them with courtesy and respect for other posters, even those you disagree with. But if you don't feel that you can stay within the guidelines that have been established, then perhaps it is best for you to participate in another community where the guidelines are less restrictive or less aggressively enforced.

[DirtyRatStudios]

There was absolutely nothing whatsoever discourteous in that thread today. You keep talking about flaming, lack of courtesy, personal attacks and I think it is giving completely the wrong impression to anyone who reads this but hasn't read the original thread.

I have also been accused of referring to the bareback thread, which I did not. I only said the words 'safer sex'. I had not previously mentioned the word bareback in the thread when Basschick mentioned it. In fact I don't think I had mentioned the word on here for nearly a week.

My exact words in the thread were:

"Well I'm going to play devil's advocate here and ask in what way is it in the interest of existing business owners to help newbies to learn? I hear people on here saying no we in the porn industry are not responsible for teaching people about safer sex, so why should we teach newbie webmasters how to become competitors?"

That is all I said. It seems the offensive phrase was 'safer sex'.

But I'm disturbed about the way this is being built up into a fantasy of what people seem to wish had happened.

[DirtyRatStudios]

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

Joseph Goebbels

[RDude]

More drama. Damn. We need to have an orgy or something I tell ya.

:fuck::blowme::party:

[basschick]

that does seem to be your technique. first you call us stalinists, then - without really saying it, you call us nazis. do you not care who you hurt? do you have any idea if any of us here are jewish? the mods here are good people, and every one was chosen because they are extremely helpful and patient.

i don't know why you say the things you say, but whatever your reasons are, you are a bully.


"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

Joseph Goebbels

[DirtyRatStudios]

that does seem to be your technique.

luckily most people here know me better than to take your accusations seriously.

Really? Do you you remember this little fib from you a while ago:

http://www.gaydemon.biz/showthread.php?t=2847&page=2

Quote: "DirtyRatStudios pmed me after gaystoryman posted in the closed thread and i told him what had happened - that mods might not notice that the threads are closed. "

In fact you had said no such thing about mods in the private message and this just made me look bad. Because of you posting that in public it looked to everyone as if hours later I had posted about BostonBoy (closing the thread) when you had already told me about the closed thread issue in private. But what you'd told everyone in public wasn't true.

I replied:

"I'm sorry but that's not true. I sent my first PM to you at 12:35 AM and gaystoryman posted at 12.36. I didn't mention him at all in the first message and I've just looked through the conversation we had and he wasn't mentioned."

But there no apology from you.

Basically you did what people have been doing in this thread: you falsified the facts to make yourself look better and to make me look bad.

Innocent mistake or deliberate? I'll leave everyone to decide in the light of all the false info that's been posted about me and the supposed 'bareback' issue today. Interestingly, three moderators all misrepresenting what happened. Almost like a team effort. And so inaccurate that it felt they hadn't even read the thread. And indeed Chip finally admitted he hadn't. So, moderaters telling me how things are when they haven't even read the damn thread.

I'm sure people aren't foolish enough not to see what is going on here. It's clear to everyone that you completely over reacted to me using the words 'safer sex'. I was talking to Raw Top in another thread at the same time. There was no drama happening, we were just chatting in both threads.

But rather than have a moderator admit she was in the wrong, all of you have tried to blacken my name instead by suggesting there were some kind of personal attacks going on, saying that I'd brought bareback into the thread, suggesting that some kind of 'flaming' or lack of respect was going on.

None of which actually happened, but you're trying to save face by misleading everyone (many of whom won't read the thread) and making me take the blame. Your tactic is: just have everyone keep on repeating the false information (there was a flame war, I was disrespecting people, I mentioned bareback etc.), get me annoyed so I react, then poke everything a bit more, until you can justify closing the thread or banning me or I leave of my own accord. No one is fooled.

I'm sure you've bullied other people into submission in the past and made them do that, but it ain't working this time and no one does it to me.

[basschick]

first off, yes - what he quoted is my original post.

second, i've had enough. he's out of here. no one on this board deserves to be called names and harangued and that includes the mods. everyone here agrees to the community rules of no drama, no insults, no thread hijacking - and till now, it's worked very well. anyone who wants to disagree is welcome to do so as long as neither i nor the moderators - nor our intelligence or abilities - are insulted. you can post it here or start your own thread. as long as you're courteous while disagreeing - even strongly - that's all i ask.

[gaydemon]

Thank you. Enough is enough.

Dirtyratstudios is now banned. I can only speak for myself but I'm tired of having to defend how this board is run, how its moderated and being told there is some sort of hidden agenda.

To make it clear, the only reason there is moderators on here is to make sure everyone gets along. Nothing else.

Allegations of being pro-bareback, bullies or some American vs British is just silly. We, moderators and members of the board are from all over the world and have different views on barebacking and many other subjects. No view is put forward above any other, except that we want everyone to be civil, nice and get along.

Basschick is a very dear friend of mine, and it hurts me to see someone accuse her of a behevior she simply isnt capable of doing. I'm sure anyone who knows her agrees with me.



first off, yes - what he quoted is my original post.

second, i've had enough. he's out of here. no one on this board deserves to be called names and harangued and that includes the mods. everyone here agrees to the community rules of no drama, no insults, no thread hijacking - and till now, it's worked very well. anyone who wants to disagree is welcome to do so as long as neither i nor the moderators - nor our intelligence or abilities - are insulted. you can post it here or start your own thread. as long as you're courteous while disagreeing - even strongly - that's all i ask.

[Squirt]

I think moderation is about right here. I just got told off for being horrible to Squirt (which was fair enough), if it was like you say id be banned Garry... You just got told not to start the bb thing in a thread that wasnt about that. You just say "fair enough" and move on..

Oh you were horrible to me recently? Darn I missed it 666

All that other stuff is water under the bridge Simon, it's all good.

I've found it's best to have a short memory regarding board drama and better to forge quality long lasting business relationships, even if they get off to a bumpy start ;)

[Mickey]

thanx guys and girls..

sometimes the squeeky wheels needs the kick ;)

[marcjacob]

Oh you were horrible to me recently? Darn I missed it 666

All that other stuff is water under the bridge Simon, it's all good.

I've found it's best to have a short memory regarding board drama and better to forge quality long lasting business relationships, even if they get off to a bumpy start ;)

I was wrong to post personal attacks which I admit and apologise for to all who read it. But Im afraid hell will freeze over before I have any sort of business relationship with you.

[gaybucks_chip]

But Im afraid hell will freeze over before I have any sort of business relationship with you.

http://www.loudountimes.com/blogs/corner/2008-01-30/michigan-hell-freezes-over/

[dzinerbear]

And just in case there's always the flying pigs (http://www.flying-pig.co.uk/).

:)
Michael

[AlexManifestMan]

"There will be pork in the treetops by morning!!"

[gaydemon]

I do wonder, can you get a return ticket to Hell, or do they only do one way?


http://www.loudountimes.com/blogs/corner/2008-01-30/michigan-hell-freezes-over/

[AlexManifestMan]

I do wonder, can you get a return ticket to Hell, or do they only do one way?

That depends entirely on which tour operator you are booking through.

[Kushiel]

And who you bribe.
I'm open to donations. ;-)

[AlexManifestMan]

I do wonder, can you get a return ticket to Hell, or do they only do one way?

Hey just a minute....YOU are the one with the horns and tail! What are you asking us for?? rofl

[Squirt]

The end of days are here!

http://www.gayporngremlins.com/en... (http://www.netdisaster.com/goff.php?mode=meteor&lang=en&destruction=massive&sound=on&alt=ok&url=http://www.gayporngremlins.com/) rofl

[gaydemon_jr]

I, personally am dismayed at this thread haha.

I hate confrontation :(