Is it worth it to put out a DVD for sale these days? [Archive]

nickbaer

07-26-2008, 09:16 AM

Thats using the old DVD model - the Big Studio DVD model.

But, once you've made your 60-70 minute program, making a DVD costs only time and 1 blank media to bring to market.

This model is for the 99% of us that DVD distributors and retail stores don't want to include in retail DVD system.

You can sell DVDs on Ebay and Naughtybids.com. You can sell DVDs through your website. You can have your DVDs rented through SugarDVD.com .

The old model works with Replicated DVDs, which means 500-1500 at a time, at a plant, in the $1,500 range upfront, plus shipping back to you, and then you have to warehouse the inventory.

The new model works with Duplicated on demand, where you burn a DVD and print a paper sleeve for the case, as the orders come in. Price is about $2 ea, after the sale is made and the cash is in hand, customer pays for only shipping involved.

The stores buy from Distributors, who are beholden to the big name studios they already serve. You're not going to get a return call, nor a reply to your e-mails.

DIY - do it yourself.

gaybucks_chip

07-26-2008, 09:30 AM

Unless you have an established DVD brand, I tend to agree with Luke. Stores aren't interested in new studios unless there's something really, really exceptional, or can find an established studio that will take your line on as part of its brand.

I'm not even sure that the branding you'd get is really worth it; you're talking about a couple hundred units max, and frankly, absolutely no offense intended to Nick, but I don't think shipping a duplicated (burned) DVD-R does much to enhance an already established brand name.

Now... all of that said, Nick is totally correct that you can supplement your income stream nicely by adding duplicate-on-demand DVDs to your lineup of products you offer. Some customers will buy them simply because they want higher quality than they can get online; others want them because they can view DVDs in more places than they can view online content.

Luke's number for up-front cost is correct if you do high end authoring and editing and outsource it to somebody good, but you can do simple authoring with almost point-and-click ease, which works well with the model Nick is speaking of. Just, as he said, don't count on getting into stores with them. Our experience is that very few stores will accept DVD-R product.

abostonboy

07-26-2008, 09:37 AM

Squirt,

Some studios are very successful in breaking in the market, and some like Nick, have not been too successful.

It is something I looked at and decided that resources could be spent better elsewhere. (Partly after a long discussion with chip about it).

If you go the on demand route you really have to ask yourself if you want to be mailing out dvds every day. The one thing i love about not having my Ebay business now is not sending out boxes of video games every day. Just the label printing, packing, shipping, and customer service drove me crazy. It was fun at first, but you may be like me and tire of it very quickly.

LavenderLounge

07-26-2008, 11:04 AM

I'm going the DIY route to put out some DVDs just for promotional purposes.

I get a lot of people asking me to donate prizes for fund raisers and bar events. It's nice to have a physical item to donate rather than, say, a certificate for free pass to a membership site. People like to hold something in their hand.

I do the DVD authoring with iDVD, print inserts and disc labels at a local gay print shop (most printers won't touch adult material). Printing cost per unit is high for short runs, but it's managable. $1 per insert, $1 per label, 29 cents per DVD sleeve, 50 cents per blank disc, makes your costs about $3 per unit.

If you plan it right, the content of the DVD can be one big infomercial for your business. Sell a few, give away a lot, it's good publicity and good PR.

nickbaer

07-26-2008, 11:05 AM

Any DVD sales model will require capital and/or manpower.

If you are thinking about selling DVDs to customers, and customers do buy DVDs, it is a venture that will require capital and manpower.

If you Replicate or Duplicate, if you're going to sell DVDs, you have to fulfill orders and ship them. Tat takes capital and manpower.

Of course, it can be profitable. Perhaps you need that extra part-time or full time person anyway, and if your VOD or webmaster revenues couldn't quite justify the extra person, maybe DVDs will put that over the edge. It can make your customers happy to have "souvenirs" of your product line and of their favorite movies and actors.

That's why for my non-sexual DVDs, I use Amazon.com.

I recently tried working with another person to sell and fulfill my sexual DVDs, but when I complained that I wasn't being paid, he fired me.

nickbaer

07-26-2008, 11:11 AM

Squirt,
Some studios are very successful in breaking in the market, and some like Nick, have not been too successful.

There are many definition of "success". The lack of success I was referring to only regarded the US retail DVD model, which in order to get into a store you need a distributor, and they are locked down by their current studios. They are told not to over saturate the market place.

But who cares about selling 1 copy to a store for it to rent for 10 years?? Who cares about having a $60 retail DVD, for which you wind up getting maybe $5 - $10 a copy after production, inventory and distribution.

I make a minimum of $10 a copy, if not $15, DIY, no politics.

I sold my first VHS tape through an ad in Playgirl Magazine in 1993, and continued via Ebay, Naughtybids and my website.

I sold my first DVD on Ebay, Naughtybids and my website, in 2004.

I'm happy with my success, and I'm almost 5 year ahead of those "thinking" about doing DVDs in 2008.

nickbaer

07-26-2008, 11:17 AM

If you plan it right, the content of the DVD can be one big infomercial for your business. Sell a few, give away a lot, it's good publicity and good PR.

Exactly.

There have been times that I have actually sent a handful of my DVDs to stores, no charge, to rent to their customers.

BIG infomercial.

basschick

07-26-2008, 01:37 PM

if your paysite has enough members or you have plenty of other traffic interested in your content, then why not go the do it yourself route and see how it goes? there are sites out there selling a good number of their own DVDs in their member area.

if you can have a DVD authored - or if you decide to go easy and not make a menu - it costs you nothing to list it in your member area and see how it goes. as long as you don't mind wrapping stuff up and a daily trip to the post office, this would be an easy way to test it.

but if you're going to be mailing explicit material, i suggest you talk to a lawyer first!

AEBN said I needed to create a DVD of my content to be put on their site and that got me thinking of distributing the DVD's as well.

Is it worth it these days to put a DVD out there for sale? I've never done it as I've always made great money online, and am only doing it now for AEBN.

What do you think.. is it worth it?

DirtyRatStudios

07-26-2008, 01:50 PM

I'm sure it could do well, especially if you work in a hard-to-find niche or, as Basschick said, you have a core of loyal members. A home-produced disc could actually be part of the appeal in some niches. Though, having said that, there is disc printing equipment available that can make a home disc look pretty good.

Also as she points out you need to check the legal situation. For example here in Britain it is illegal to send porn through the mail except from a licensed sex shop.

As I mentioned in another thread GUIforDVDAuthor is good free software to try for authoring professional looking DVDs with Windows.

deanb

07-26-2008, 03:09 PM

AEBN said I needed to create a DVD of my content to be put on their site and that got me thinking of distributing the DVD's as well.

Is it worth it these days to put a DVD out there for sale? I've never done it as I've always made great money online, and am only doing it now for AEBN.

What do you think.. is it worth it?

I am going to disagree with just about everyone here. It doesn't cost 10k to put a DVD out, they are easy to author yourself, and you can get them reproduced for a cost of about 600 bucks for 1000 DVDs. If you have content that a distributor will take, then you are leaving money on the table IMO to not be doing DVDs with it.

That being said, for your stuff, distributors will probably be more inclined to take the Sleeping Men stuff, as it has duos and action, distributors aren't big on solos.

TropixxxMichael

07-26-2008, 08:56 PM

I am going to disagree with just about everyone here. It doesn't cost 10k to put a DVD out, they are easy to author yourself, and you can get them reproduced for a cost of about 600 bucks for 1000 DVDs. If you have content that a distributor will take, then you are leaving money on the table IMO to not be doing DVDs with it.

That being said, for your stuff, distributors will probably be more inclined to take the Sleeping Men stuff, as it has duos and action, distributors aren't big on solos.

Yeah, we pay about $1000 for 2000 REPLICATED, Shirkwrapped, Bar-Coded, etc. retail ready store units. I author them myself with DVD Studio Pro, Menu's and all. Lucky Video can make a glass master from a good DVD-R done with DVD Studio Pro.

That being said, the bulk of my DVD's I sell are directly to customers that visit my website, not retail stores. The DVD's I sell online are just DVD-R's in paper. Granted, I have a specialty niche, and not all sites could get away with this....

But Dean is right, you dont need to spend a whole lot to get good quality product.

GTP

07-27-2008, 03:29 AM

I don't really know the DVD market in USA but do you think that an online DVD store is a good way to sell some DVD? I'm thinking about something like http://store.falconstudios.com with a single brand of DVD selling in offline stores too.

I think it will need all the "classic" promo tools: content for bloggers, trailers clips, free hosted galleries and similars. What do you think about? Any extra promo tool working well for that? It will worth the investment? There is something strange we have to know to promote DVD online that is different that selling paysites?

Squirt

07-27-2008, 04:16 AM

Thanks everyone for the input, it's greatly appreciated!

From what I'm seeing it would be easiest to do it on your own, but possibly less profitable then going with a distributor, depending on the content.

Since I'm doing the DVD's anyway for AEBN, I'll have a master handy for self promotion on my site.

Does anyone know of a reasonable fulfillment company that can handle orders and mailing?

Thanks again everyone there is a lot of great information here

nickbaer

07-27-2008, 11:25 AM

There is missing in this industry a responsible DVD-R fulfillment company, to honestly report orders and honestly and promptly pay.

For my non-sexual titles, I use Amazon.com.

Amazon.com does permit selling erotic titles, by the fulfillment firm I use does not do erotic content. So there is a piece of the Amazon.com pie that I am missing out on.

For my sexual titles, I have not been contacted directly by any such fulfillment company, in the 4 years that I have been part of webmaster and studio Boards.

I did work with a less than reputable guy up until June when I complained about late payments, at which time I was dropped.

(This is yet another hint I am dropping to an entrepreneurial guy or gal who wants to launch a cottage industry business.)

tombarr

07-27-2008, 11:44 AM

The retail DVD business model for general gay porn dvd releases is lumbering slowly toward it's demise. People that make money now will be those studios that can produce content and command enough front page time on major VOD sites to generate enough sales to recoupe production costs or specialized niche market studios that appeal to very select groups of viewers, or those that market themselves directly to consumers.

While there is some life left in the typical retail DVD market, the market to get into if you are a small studio, or a new studio, is one where you replicate your product as sold, package it and send it out yourself. The days of distribution companies selling tons of product for studios is long gone, either because they morphed into studios / distribution points for their own product lines, and / or many distribution houses are no longer signing new studios because there is not the market demand that was before.

Further, many many small studios that have been lucky enough to get a distributor willing to rep their video line quickly finds out that either the distributor is simply taking the line and fulfilling orders (as opposed to actually trying to sell the line) or they sell the line somewhat and don't pay forever.

The best thing you could do as a company just starting to produce DVDs is make sure you have your own sales vehicle, i.e. website, or customer list to sell to first...and then just replicate on demand. There is still life left in that market, and for the really super niche product that market will be there for a while longer yet.

The typical retail - distribution model is almost dead....while some deals will still be found, those that are smart will be selling to their own customers....and of course VOD.

gaybucks_chip

07-27-2008, 02:53 PM

I'm not sure if he accepts DVD-R-based product, but Chris at Pornteam is an excellent guy who does DVD order fulfillment. He also has another business model where he manufactures the DVDs, advertises them on his store (which has a TON of traffic) and does a revenue sharing deal with the producers. He has a fairly large warehouse and is equipped to ship a pretty large volume so I'm sure he'd do a good job for you.

He is one of the very few people that I would trust completely in this business. We've been doing business with him since 2001 or 2002 and have always been paid promptly and on time, and he provides detailed sales statistics, including the names of customers he's sold to, so you don't have to worry about shaving sales.

There have been various fulfillment operations that have done adult fulfillment that have come and gone. Most, like the operation that you worked with, have had problems of either flakiness or honest reporting.

If you're so inclined, I'd suggest giving Chris a call and seeing what he has to offer.

nickbaer

07-27-2008, 03:27 PM

Did he make it here from GWW?

basschick

07-27-2008, 05:00 PM

there's no chris here, but there is a pornteam:

http://www.gaydemon.biz/member.php?u=204

is that him?

Did he make it here from GWW?

nickbaer

07-27-2008, 06:02 PM

A moderator should invite him to add to this thread.

We have questions and are eager to learn.

gaybucks_chip

07-27-2008, 06:22 PM

I just sent him an email and asked him to join this thread.

pornteam

07-27-2008, 07:35 PM

there's no chris here, but there is a pornteam:

http://www.gaydemon.biz/member.php?u=204

is that him?

I am here...

pornteam

07-27-2008, 07:45 PM

I am here... I have been reading the thread. Soaking it all in here in Mexico on vacation. The only major thing I have to say is that you the customers are looking for professional product now and the amateur editing, lighting and sound doesn't go over with them anymore. We can help you master you DVDs and get them into retail stores as well as help you with a branded e commerce site marketing your product and handing your order fulfillment. (see pierrefitchonline.com).

The market for DVD is not dead, just much harder to get into, we are reviewing everything before committing to working with producers now. I have a couple of producers that we are working with that everything has to be redone inorder to get it into stores. If you have a membership site, it is recommended to use the DVDs as a marketing tool for the site. I would also suggest making the DVDs different than the content that you have on your site (i.e. include behind the scenes, edit it differently so there is more content).

With some producers that we do not distribute wholesale (like Chip's videos) we do just carry on our site and pay him each month for the DVDs sold. Chip supplies with with the DVD inventory and we market them to our customers. Other producers, like SpunkWorthy.com we make DVD-R (made to order copies) and send our retail ready DVD-R copies.

Hope some of this helps, I will do my best to answer questions.

basschick

07-27-2008, 09:31 PM

thanks for the info, and for joining us on this thread :)

I am here... I have been reading the thread. Soaking it all in here in Mexico on vacation. The only major thing I have to say is that you the customers are looking for professional product now and the amateur editing, lighting and sound doesn't go over with them anymore. We can help you master you DVDs and get them into retail stores as well as help you with a branded e commerce site marketing your product and handing your order fulfillment. (see pierrefitchonline.com).

The market for DVD is not dead, just much harder to get into, we are reviewing everything before committing to working with producers now. I have a couple of producers that we are working with that everything has to be redone inorder to get it into stores. If you have a membership site, it is recommended to use the DVDs as a marketing tool for the site. I would also suggest making the DVDs different than the content that you have on your site (i.e. include behind the scenes, edit it differently so there is more content).

With some producers that we do not distribute wholesale (like Chip's videos) we do just carry on our site and pay him each month for the DVDs sold. Chip supplies with with the DVD inventory and we market them to our customers. Other producers, like SpunkWorthy.com we make DVD-R (made to order copies) and send our retail ready DVD-R copies.

Hope some of this helps, I will do my best to answer questions.

pornteam

07-27-2008, 09:42 PM

no problem, and thank you. always nice to feel welcome.

nickbaer

07-27-2008, 11:05 PM

The real sales action is on Amazon.com.

Considering my previous posts, have you begun the process of putting erotic (with in reason) on Amazon.com? Either inventory with them, or DVD-R fulfillment.

I sell a lot of nude muscle, outdoor, feet, massage and shower there.

It's no big secret that it is a viable sales channel, I just don't have the one-man manpower to do it (differently for erotic vs softcore). I really wish someone would take the ball and run with small studio DVD-R erotica on Amazon.

Especially with the European adventure ahead of me, and my wanting to shoot what sells - more softcore male body beautiful, or romantic erotica short of obsessive sexual pounding.

pornteam

07-28-2008, 07:06 AM

In the past we have listed product on amazon, but it was removed due to it being against amazon's policies.

We also noticed problems with trying to filter out where you can and can not sell to. At one point we had a customer from Utah trying to order everything and unfortunately you can not ship there so we emailed the customer canceled is order and he made a big stink with amazon. Amazon, froze our account and just recently we were able to get access back to clean everything up and start over.

So, we are in the process of listing items that are not "porn" like lube, calendars Guys Gone Wild products and other products that are being added to PornTeam in it's next redesign.

I kown DeanB was doing good on Amazon, until his product was removed as well.

the European market was doing really good for sales up until the end of June. I think that the US economy is not hurting the rest of the world. If you DVD sales are lacking, it is not the fact that customers are not interested in DVDs anymore, when we have asked our customers, they are telling you they just dont have the funds like they have in the past, so they are going form purchasing 5 to 10 videos an order to 2 to 3 an order.

Squirt

07-28-2008, 08:01 AM

Squirt

07-28-2008, 08:18 AM

I am here... I have been reading the thread. Soaking it all in here in Mexico on vacation.

Chris and I communicated via PM and I'll be giving him a call after his vacation. Thanks for the quick reply Chris :)

It seems there aren't many other adult fulfillment companies out there, or at least they don't post here, yet.

nickbaer

07-28-2008, 09:28 AM

There's 2 different ways to list product on Amazon.com.

One is pretty much on your own, and the other is with the assist of an Amazon sales rep.

That's where I left it a couple of months ago, because I am not going to be around to deal with the mechanics.

I still have her e-mail.

One reason why i know, is that when on Amazon.com you search on my name Nick Baer in DVDs, at least one DVD product shows up by another studio, which is massage, but includes penis and rosebud.

So that makes me mad for two reasons - 1) he has included my name in his keywords and 2) he's got more sexually explicit content than I do.

nickbaer

07-28-2008, 09:32 AM

The box covers must be censored - that is, no frontal. You'll see they're OK with otherwise nude models if there's something covering the fun parts. Twisted, turned or otherwise covered.

I think they are OK with romanticized activity, that is more than focused on the mechanical pounding.

Just like on YouTube... you're not supposed to show cock, but the college boys physicals are there... as are Penis and Testicle exams by a guy in a white coat.

What does Amazon.com consider erotic and NOT sexual?

Can they be in underwear touching their hard cock without the cock showing? What is Amazons limit?

pornteam

07-28-2008, 04:26 PM

What does Amazon.com consider erotic and NOT sexual?

Can they be in underwear touching their hard cock without the cock showing? What is Amazons limit?

That is a good question and one of my staff that is working with amazon on getting products listed will have to answer that question. My first understanding (this was back in first quarter of this year) was non nude. but since they sell guys gone wild we ahave been trying to get them to lock down what is and is not ok. One of the things you can do is list DVDs has unrated until someone complains and removes the product. However they will freeze your account and your funds for all transactions that you are still waiting to receive money from amazon on.

Chris

pornteam

07-28-2008, 04:29 PM

The box covers must be censored - that is, no frontal. You'll see they're OK with otherwise nude models if there's something covering the fun parts. Twisted, turned or otherwise covered.

I think they are OK with romanticized activity, that is more than focused on the mechanical pounding.

Just like on YouTube... you're not supposed to show cock, but the college boys physicals are there... as are Penis and Testicle exams by a guy in a white coat.

the other thing you also need to consider, and this might be why amazon has been unable to tell us what we need to know is, there is really no way to do adult verification on their site. amazon also, tell you as a merchant what you can collect for shipping and handling costs, and you can not market directly to the customer once an order is placed on your product.

C

AnthonyDeAngelo

07-28-2008, 07:28 PM

now for my 3¢...

yes, the market has changed and no, it doesn't cost a bundle any longer (10-30 grand) to put out a decent looking DVD - it can all be done very simply and run in small numbers and with the right distributor, no problems... plus, the titles can be licensed and reproduced for distribution overseas as well and can also be licensed to hotel networks and cable companies and so and so on and so on...

hand made aside, there are still large distributors out there that will pick up large numbers of DVDs for release

I say go for it - if WE had listened to all the discouraging words from people when we started (especially doing bareback... well... we would have never moved to BH - hello - and on...)!!!

it the truth - am I making my point? - it ain't easy but then nobody ever said it would be

as a matter of fact, my formula was adopted by two other start-up studio heads who are now doing very well with there brands everywhere...

but then we've never been one to follow any advice from anyone - we always do our own thing - maybe not the best way to go but it works when you're "artistic types" like us...

AnthonyDeAngelo

07-29-2008, 06:59 AM

EEEK.... and woops, I hate posting on myself but....

I completely forgot to mention that one of the most important things about putting out a DVD is this... make certain you've got another one or two titles ready to go out the door when you release your first title - why? because... your new distributor will want to know that you are serious and will want to put you on regular schedule for releases so, it will be best if you know that you are putting out 3, 6 or even 12 titles a year... in this way, it will be worth it to your distributor to spend the time promoting you - don't go with EBay that's totally illegal in their books and you'll get screwed into the wall when you're caught!

believe me, there are dozens and dozens of start up companies spitting out new content all the time and distributors need to choose content that they know will stick and from a company that will be around producing for them in years to come

did you know that over 750 new DVD titles will cross the desks of the main distribution network houses in LA every WEEK? that's a lot of DVDs and a lot of junk so... make your product stand out and have something that no other titles in your niche (whatever that is - I'm sorry I don't know)

its a huge amount of work and it will take some time to get established but can be worth it in the long run or short run (whichever method you go with)* see my notes somewhere on short run (100 or less) DVD dupicators vs. large run replicators and two sided DVD cover insert printing... somewhere on this board that's gotten SOOOO big in the past couple of months - congrats Bjorn...

pornteam

07-29-2008, 07:27 AM

camcruise

07-29-2008, 08:36 AM

AnthonyDeAngelo you have made some good points, my only other suggestion to producers that want to start doing DVDs is be willing to work with distributors on suggestions they might give you on your product. We have found that producers usually take it really personal when we suggest adding images or text to box artwork, or changing the running order of a dvd to make it more profitable in the wholesale market.

We have worked with our distributors on suggestions about box cover only. So they could feel better about pushing our DVD's. (Hardcore to softcore and such.)

But We have found that when we started to distributed ourselves that the stores wanted the hardcore covers we started with. So I am sure we missed more sales by going with our distributor's notion of soft covers.

We were never asked by our distributor to re-edit and/or re-master a finished DVD. That would cost too much in time and $$$ and is out of the question. I could see that most artists including us, would draw the line at re-directing their movie, performances, theme, etc.

pornteam

07-29-2008, 04:50 PM

We have worked with our distributors on suggestions about box cover only. So they could feel better about pushing our DVD's. (Hardcore to softcore and such.)

But We have found that when we started to distributed ourselves that the stores wanted the hardcore covers we started with. So I am sure we missed more sales by going with our distributor's notion of soft covers.

We were never asked by our distributor to re-edit and/or re-master a finished DVD. That would cost too much in time and $$$ and is out of the question. I could see that most artists including us, would draw the line at re-directing their movie, performances, theme, etc.

Interesting about the covers, we only suggest hard core covers, the more nasty the better they sell. we usually run screeners past distributors before the we have ran the replication for the client. In most cases the distributors have not had any major editorial changes to the video. Usually they ask (and we try to catch this before the distributors) to clean up edits and take out "crap" i.e. footage that dosent help the video, camera men (well unless they are part of the video) little things.

I just ask that producers keep an open mind when shopping their product around.

AnthonyDeAngelo

07-29-2008, 09:43 PM

and another VERY IMPORTANT point...

we did shop distributors and back then, only a couple would handle bareback - we ended up with ours because they actually signed a contract with us

we believe strongly in using a contractual agreement with anyone doing business with us - just so that they're aren't any misunderstandings down the road and as one of my attorneys always said... "if they're afraid to sign a contract, they'll be a pain in the ass down the road!"

but most important, we chose the only distributor who stuck to their original price - the other guy kept changing his mind about unit price he was willing to pay - that wasn't a good sign to us and he had a bad reputation with others we knew

in the end, we made the right choice - box covers aside... The French Connection pushed our product into markets that other gay companies weren't pursuing - that's why we ended up in all the Tower Record stores and Virgin stores pushing large numbers

and of course, they paid on time and by the clock - a check arriving every week on schedule with no problems ever - that was critical to our success and guaranteed funds (still does) for future projects of all types

they also paid for promotion and space at conventions and shows and promo and trips and appearances...

distribution is a critical part to any successful production company

JoeSchmoeProductions

07-30-2008, 09:36 AM

Other producers, like SpunkWorthy.com we make DVD-R (made to order copies) and send our retail ready DVD-R copies.

Hope some of this helps, I will do my best to answer questions.

Well...I was wondering why no one ever answered my email about joining Pornteam as a producer. MY buddy Jason from Spunkworthy told me you guys were kinda picky...I just figured my vids were too "crappy" LOL

I Dont get it though...Cause I consistently outsell him on AMVC...and Out stream him on AEBN.

Any thoughts?

Joe