Anyone Wanna Do A Free Site Buildathon?

[abostonboy]

Thinking it maybe fun. If no one knows what it is, post in here. Webmasters use to them on the gay boards a long time ago and many straight boards still do them.

[Chubbs]

I got no design skills and am swamped with current projects but would still like to know what a buildathon is??

--Chubbs

[abostonboy]

It's basically where we all build a free site and each other has input and shares ideas, so at the end each of us has a good free site ready to submit. Then many take it a step further and submit it and report on traffic and sales.

[BBD]

Do you mean a free site to get submitted to links lists?
Those sites to have pretty much died havent they?

[MaxPower]

I make free sites, and feel they will be around in some way or another for many years. Free sites need to Change and adapt and find ways to offer a better experience than FHG’s do. After all the owner of this board runs a LL, that is supported from people wanting to see these Free Sites, its just not as ‘easy’ money as FHG’s and design skills are needed but can be more satisfying to create more permanent things.

[basschick]

not at all. i know people making their entire living off free sites.

like max said, free sites need to change - but then, change is a constant in all kinds of marketing, particularly on the web where things change fast.


Do you mean a free site to get submitted to links lists?
Those sites to have pretty much died havent they?

[gaydemon]

Oh no, they are very much alive. There is a huge amount of traffic to be had for those to actually try and submit. What has happened and I dont know why, is that East European webmasters seem to have taken over the free site market.

What I dont undestand it why people dont do free sites while also optimizing them for SEO and have a hub which could be a blog or something.. it would end up with some nice free goolge traffic.


Do you mean a free site to get submitted to links lists?
Those sites to have pretty much died havent they?

[gaydemon]

Absolutly, Max is right. There is more time and effort involved in doing free sites. But a change in how they are done might be needed as well.


I make free sites, and feel they will be around in some way or another for many years. Free sites need to Change and adapt and find ways to offer a better experience than FHG’s do. After all the owner of this board runs a LL, that is supported from people wanting to see these Free Sites, its just not as ‘easy’ money as FHG’s and design skills are needed but can be more satisfying to create more permanent things.

[abostonboy]

Free sites are alive and well. What is not is creativity. With all the templated sites, webmasters have "forgotten" how to sell.

[gumdrop]

I do various variations of them and they do well. You have to be creative.

[gumdrop]

I can setup a "collaborative" free site if people wish...using a CMS. I think that would be a kewl idea.

[RottenRay]

Good Timing On This -

I'm in the middle of building magazine-style layup pages to promote menmachine.com - I should have something available to peek/puke at by the end of the week.

I'll post an example here as soon as I get 'er done!

Do we have any baseline rules?

If not, I'd suggest the "minimums" I use to support my table of recips:
60 images (800 px long+wide or bigger) or 12 videos (1 minute or longer)
No Blind Thumbnail Links / Popups / Exit Consoles
No "questionable" content (I shouldn't have to explain this, but no celebs, no scat, no www.asssmoothie.com, yadda lol)
NO OVERUSED CONTENT
1 FPA before content


Any comments or suggestions?




Gaydemon -

Oh no, they are very much alive. There is a huge amount of traffic to be had for those to actually try and submit. What has happened and I dont know why, is that East European webmasters seem to have taken over the free site market.


Yeah, they have - and I suspect a lot of your directory owner's grief is coming from that market. They spew in mass quantity, rather than focusing.

I should qualify that statement: Some of them are responsible, yadda-yadda, some of them spew, yadda-yadda.

[abostonboy]

Rotten Ray,

Can I ak you a question? Is there a "secret" to your warning page that I am not aware of? I guess what I am asking, why the big recips?

[Bec]

Oh no, they are very much alive. There is a huge amount of traffic to be had for those to actually try and submit. What has happened and I dont know why, is that East European webmasters seem to have taken over the free site market.


Well, that's actually understandable given that every webmaster in the States putting up a free site technically needs ID's and if you are using sponsor content so that you're actually showing what is IN the site as opposed to buying content, you're probably fucked in getting the IDs or can only show the guy still dressed. :rolleyes:

[abostonboy]

Well, that's actually understandable given that every webmaster in the States putting up a free site technically needs ID's and if you are using sponsor content so that you're actually showing what is IN the site as opposed to buying content, you're probably fucked in getting the IDs or can only show the guy still dressed. :rolleyes:

Actually. This is a gray area. If you believe that there are still secondary producers or not. Last advice I got from my attorney was the the Secondary Producer law was still in effect. Though others will argue that there are no secondary producers.

I use sponsor content.

[basschick]

except for a few states, the new 2257 regs ARE in effect - which means there are no secondary producers. i'm shocked to hear that your lawyer said otherwise since that law changed as of june 23 2005.

the fbi seems to be holding back on inspections since the legal challenge, which was only in one area, but i think there has been at least one fairly recently. still, they can archive your site to show you weren't in compliance...


Actually. This is a gray area. If you believe that there are still secondary producers or not. Last advice I got from my attorney was the the Secondary Producer law was still in effect. Though others will argue that there are no secondary producers.

I use sponsor content.

[abostonboy]

Actually, I don't want to get off topic on this one.

But in regards to becs point about free sites. One also has to realize that a blog owner needs to be 2257 compliant as well. Even an RSS feed on a blog that I own I need to be 2257 compliant.

[basschick]

true, true. of course, i've done free sites using non-nude content. it CAN be done ;)

RottenRay, do you find that most link lists post your free sites even with a pass-thru page? when i was doing them a while back, a lot of link lists didn't allow this.

gaydemon, do you accept free site submissions with a fpa between the enter page and the content pages?

[abostonboy]

I HOPE Bjorn accepts hpa's on the warning pages. I design really clean free sites on the inside. My 1/2 page on the warning is my primary sales tool as are three mini text reviews on the inside. I hardly ever use banners on the insides of my sites.

[abostonboy]

true, true. of course, i've done free sites using non-nude content. it CAN be done ;)



But who will list them? I would really like to find places that list free sites with non nude content. I am actually big into underwear and what many link lists don't understand is that underwear is sexy, but you don't need to show cock. In fact showing lots of cock can turn off many of us into underwear.

I once submitted a site that had bulges and showed the head of cocks like 5 times. Two link lists listed it. The rest rejected.

[basschick]

actually i've had no problems getting them listed at all - ever. go figure!

[gaydemon]

Of course, I never thought of that! That really explains a lot..


Well, that's actually understandable given that every webmaster in the States putting up a free site technically needs ID's and if you are using sponsor content so that you're actually showing what is IN the site as opposed to buying content, you're probably fucked in getting the IDs or can only show the guy still dressed. :rolleyes:

[gaydemon]

Sometimes I do yes, it depends really on how it looks. If the "enter" link is really tiny or concealed in some way, then I dont.


true, true. of course, i've done free sites using non-nude content. it CAN be done ;)

RottenRay, do you find that most link lists post your free sites even with a pass-thru page? when i was doing them a while back, a lot of link lists didn't allow this.

gaydemon, do you accept free site submissions with a fpa between the enter page and the content pages?

[gaydemon]

I would list them on gaydemon!

And yes you are right, underwear as a niche / category on gaydemon is actually quite high traffic, same goes for wrestling (http://www.gaydemon.com/directory/fetish_and_BDSM/wrestling/) which is the most popular niche on gaydemon out of them all, its the highest traffic category by far. And more or less always have no nudity.




But who will list them? I would really like to find places that list free sites with non nude content. I am actually big into underwear and what many link lists don't understand is that underwear is sexy, but you don't need to show cock. In fact showing lots of cock can turn off many of us into underwear.

I once submitted a site that had bulges and showed the head of cocks like 5 times. Two link lists listed it. The rest rejected.

[Mickey]

i would be interested in taking part in this for sure..

[abostonboy]

I would list them on gaydemon!

And yes you are right, underwear as a niche / category on gaydemon is actually quite high traffic, same goes for wrestling (http://www.gaydemon.com/directory/fetish_and_BDSM/wrestling/) which is the most popular niche on gaydemon out of them all, its the highest traffic category by far. And more or less always have no nudity.

I wish you would explain to other link list owners that you don't need nudity in certain niches to make surfers bookmark and happy.


Yes, a big cock site needs nudity. But a hot underwear site sure doesn't. Hot guys + cute underwear = HOT! HOT! HOT!

[gumdrop]

I wish you would explain to other link list owners that you don't need nudity in certain niches to make surfers bookmark and happy.


Yes, a big cock site needs nudity. But a hot underwear site sure doesn't. Hot guys + cute underwear = HOT! HOT! HOT!

Oh Lloyd I am so glad to see my fav avatar of yours again...:cool:666

[abostonboy]

Oh Lloyd I am so glad to see my fav avatar of yours again...:cool:666

Keep this thread on topic please. Feel free to start a new thread. hehehe

[abostonboy]

i would be interested in taking part in this for sure..

Ok. I think we should arrange this for sure. Bjorn has mentioned that the winner or those with the best sites could get in his top ten. I got a site there once (based on user clicks) and made like 20 sales to a $35 PPS program. So, there is an incentive if Bjorn oks the idea.

Let's talk about making it happen.

Who is game to do a site?

[RottenRay]

Aboston -


Rotten Ray,
Can I ak you a question? Is there a "secret" to your warning page that I am not aware of? I guess what I am asking, why the big recips?

No, it's just much easier to do it that way. Most of those graphics are quickly edited screenshots - since not every directory has banner recips, or good looking banner recips.


Basschick -


RottenRay, do you find that most link lists post your free sites even with a pass-thru page? when i was doing them a while back, a lot of link lists didn't allow this.

Actually, I haven't really used FPAs for a while - but none of the directories I list with have ever complained about them as long as the "no thanks" link was bright and easy to find.


Gaydemon -


???gaydemon, do you accept free site submissions with a fpa between the enter page and the content pages????

...and...

Sometimes I do yes, it depends really on how it looks. If the "enter" link is really tiny or concealed in some way, then I dont.

I think most good directory folks have the same opinion, especially if you keep their recips ABOVE the enter link.


Bottom line on this - I've always considered the warning/recips page as "belonging" to the sites who list me. It's what I "pay" for the traffic, in other words.

That's the other reason for big recip banners - hopefully, y'all are getting something back for your effort and traffic.



...

[abostonboy]

Bottom line on this - I've always considered the warning/recips page as "belonging" to the sites who list me. It's what I "pay" for the traffic, in other words.

That's the other reason for big recip banners - hopefully, y'all are getting something back for your effort and traffic.



...

Hmmm... i always liked to give text links. And as a link list owner i liked text links. Good anchor text always helped in Google.

On another note, I guess what I am thinking does a link list owner want his surfers to see a whole page of banners to other link lists that the surfer has to scroll down and find the enter button to the free site?

As a link list owner I valued the inbound links. The traffic I got from the recips was minimal. But you never submitted to my link list. Wish you had. :)

[basschick]

okay, if we're doing a contest - and that sounds good to me - we need to start a new thread for the build-a-thon. but first we need to figure out some rules and what will determine that a site is the winner, don't ya think? ;)

[abostonboy]

Yeah. but at the moment I am having a Yahoo headache big time.

[RottenRay]

Abostonboy -


Hmmm... i always liked to give text links. And as a link list owner i liked text links. Good anchor text always helped in Google.

On another note, I guess what I am thinking does a link list owner want his surfers to see a whole page of banners to other link lists that the surfer has to scroll down and find the enter button to the free site?


Text links are great. I use them exclusively at www.hardcockreport.com since they fit the format better than big shiny recip banners, but since those index pages are designed to be a "blow-past" page, I also list the recips on the links page inside.

As far as seeing the whole long list of other directories, yeah, I think you do want to see them. We've become a "more must be better" society, so presenting that whole long list of banners causes some folks to back up to the index page.

When designing that big banner recip page, I considered several things:

How do I make sure that everyone I list with has an equal share of that page?
How do I make it easy for folks who want to explore more than one do so?
How do I make all the directories look like they deserve a visit?


The only real way was to build my own banners, so that everything has roughly the same appeal - and list them alphabetically - and make each open a new window.

That way, surfers who go back and start exploring will visit more than one, and hopefully find a few they like enough to bookmark.

Also, I avoid spreading recips out inside a site. That way, if someone isn't keen on the content inside the site, they've at least seen all the directories in one place they can go back to easily.

[abostonboy]

Interesting points. But, how much traffic do you feel you are possibly losing? Also, what if one of the link lists stops listing free sites. Do you feel they really deserve that big of banner space?

I am not saying you are right or wrong by any means. Just trying to get a "feel" for the reason behind it.

For example, has gay category been updated in the last three years with new sites?

On another note is gaycategory run by a tgp script or a link list script? Ihave always liked the simplicity of that site, but not so much the sponsors...

[BBD]

I guess I was way off base here. Who has a good list of links lists that will list gay sites and send decent traffic? I am all for getting the free sites going again

[abostonboy]

http://www.gaydemon.biz/showthread.php?t=60

Cheers,
Lloyd

[basschick]

think we could get dennis and a couple other ll owners to keep an eye on the buildathon and give a couple tips? i think we can talk gaydemon into doing it ;)

[MaxPower]

My company is solely based on its ability to flitter this type of traffic, creating free sites, their design, advertisement systems, and effective models. I do not derive my income from affiliates, thus all my creation are solely used to support my company directly.

[gaydemon_jr]

Free site buildathon. Sounds good!

[abostonboy]

If anyone wants to do one please post in the Who's Game thread. This one got a little long and hard to see who really wants to do one.

[RottenRay]

Abostonboy -and certainly all you other directory owners..!


Interesting points. But, how much traffic do you feel you are possibly losing? Also, what if one of the link lists stops listing free sites. Do you feel they really deserve that big of banner space?

I am not saying you are right or wrong by any means. Just trying to get a "feel" for the reason behind it.

I don't feel I'm losing any traffic, really. For the most part, I have a lot of sites listed with the links on my recip page, or nice agreements with others giving me a single listing (SMaQ, et cetera)... What goes around comes around.

a mid-quote here:
Also, what if one of the link lists stops listing free sites. Do you feel they really deserve that big of banner space?

The rule I follow is simple: Keep 60% of my freesites listed (or link to my top level) and you keep your recip.

But the bottom line is, I VALUE THAT TRAFFIC because every 10Khits I get from GD or another place is 10khits I don't have to buy.



For example, has gay category been updated in the last three years with new sites?
On another note is gaycategory run by a tgp script or a link list script? Ihave always liked the simplicity of that site, but not so much the sponsors...


I still get hits from GayCategory, so I keep them linked. I haven't submitted anything new in a year, since they changed format - but as long as traffic comes in, I keep linking.

That's the agreement with all of you, isn't it?


Sighing a bit and getting another glass of sangria, I'm thinking that it would be much easier for me if more freesite webmasters followed the simple rules most directories have.

The fact that so many don't makes it harder for me - and amazes me to no end, because this isn't rocket science.

Treat the folks you do biz with and almost all of them will treat you well in return. A good directory owner or manager is worth his weight in content CDs.

Honestly, there is more than enough $$ in this biz that we don't need to be greedy or cheat - all we need to do is work together to keep breaking it loose!


...

[abostonboy]

Actually Ray. If I don't submit a site to a link list, then they are not on my recips. So in the case of gay category, I would not put them as a recip on a site that they didn't list.

If a link list rejects my site, I take them off my recips. Every link out is a "vote" in Google's eyes. Why send a directory a "vote" or traffic that is not listing that particular site?

[basschick]

if a site doesn't list one of my sites, i also remove the recip. 'cause it isn't really a recip if only one party is sending traffic, right?


Actually Ray. If I don't submit a site to a link list, then they are not on my recips. So in the case of gay category, I would not put them as a recip on a site that they didn't list.

If a link list rejects my site, I take them off my recips. Every link out is a "vote" in Google's eyes. Why send a directory a "vote" or traffic that is not listing that particular site?

[gaydemon_jr]

if a site doesn't list one of my sites, i also remove the recip. 'cause it isn't really a recip if only one party is sending traffic, right?

agreed. the whole idea is exchanging. otherwise the directory has a free link to their site.