Video Compression

[AlexManifestMan]

Okay folks. I need to find someone to handle our video compression. It has been pointed out that even with the cdn, our videos do not load as fast as some other peoples. I have worked on this till I am ready to pull out my hair so it is time to hire a real professional. I have hired a couple of folks in the past and not been pleased with the results.

Our stuff plays great for me and most of our members. However, when my business partner tests things in CA they are slow to load and when he tries the videos from other folks it is not slow. So clearly I am doing something wrong.

So here is the question: Where can I find a great encoder to handle our work. We have about 12 20 minute clips each month in two formats and three sizes. It could well be that we need to change over to a streaming server (flash or WMV) and go that route.

We have found a couple really good videographers and three editors so that part is now handled.

[basschick]

could the problem be that your canadian business partner has a routing problem to your site? i'm having that problem with a site i work with - everything on their site is slow to download for me, but the videos are very normal in size.

if everyone else finds your videos to be a normal size, the issue is probably not the compression.

[abostonboy]

if everyone else finds your videos to be a normal size, the issue is probably not the compression.

Agreed. It's not the compression at all. We had the same issue a while back in that there was a bottleneck in the routing between the US and the UK with certain providers. None of the major hosting companies could solve the issue as it was beyond their control. And would even be beyond the CDN control.

The ONLY solution was to setup another server farm outside the US. After that, the problem was solved as the new servers don't connect via the route that was causing the problem.

I just can't see how it's a compression problem.

[Adam Mason]

I would have to agree with Lloyd and Patti here, as I spent months trying to resolve download speed issues. This is a hosting issue, not a compression issue. If some people can download / stream fine, and a few others can't then its a hosting issue (and they are not easy to resolve either). If you want more info simply reply and I will post a detailed account of my experiences.

[AlexManifestMan]

It seems the videos (both mov and wmv) are starting and stopping until they are fully downloaded.

[basschick]

that's normal if the connection speed is poor.

[AlexManifestMan]

Well what do you guys think is the fastest, medium and slowest bit rates for video?

[abostonboy]

It seems the videos (both mov and wmv) are starting and stopping until they are fully downloaded.

That happens when the connection speed is bad.

For example, if I am playing Itunes and downloading from FTP this happens to me ALL the time. I can't watch a video online as I only have a 1.5 meg connection. That's why I usually download videos in the background and watch them after they are done.

Whenever you have a connectivity issue from point a to point b this will happen.

For example, a few days ago I could connect to 1/2 the internet and there was no problem. It seemed like the other 1/2 was slow as fuck. I called Verizon and they were working on a router that was messed up. So, I wasn't getting good speeds to many sites.

Our highest videos are encoded st 3.5 meg. There is no way in hell that I can stream them on my 1.5meg connection. Now, if I am having an issue connecting to BlakeMason even on my 1.5meg line, I wont even be able to stream the 1 meg vesrions as it will need to buffer before I can view more. This is why I hate streaming videos.


If the users connection is slower than what they are encoded in and they can't download them fast enough, you will get that. Imagine someone on dialup trying to watch your videos. That's probably ALMOST what is happening when there is a connectivity issue, even tough they are on broadband.

[basschick]

i've seen sites with 19k videos for dialup users, but you couldn't tell what the video was of. i've recently reviewed a series of sites with 5 Mbps videos that looked spectacular and another series of sites with full on HD videos with a bitrate of 8 Mbps that might have been handy for those watching on HD TV, but i wasn't on HD TV, so all it did for me was make the videos take forever to download.

i think for standard video, approx 80k for low, 512 - 768k for medium and 2 to 3 Mbps is a good mix. go much below 80k and the image starts to degrade even when small, go above 3 Mbps and you will frustrate people on 1.5 connections. 1.5 Mbps and below show some loss of quality for a lot of videos but it's not too bad.

i think that what dictates the bitrates varies depending on what the site is trying to do and what they want to offer.


Well what do you guys think is the fastest, medium and slowest bit rates for video?

[abostonboy]

80k is pretty low now. That would be imho the absolute lowest I would ever go.

The main issue that you have is your videos are embedded on the page. Even someone that has a fast connection to your site one day, may have a slow connection the next. So, they will get various results when playing the videos.

Some days when I stream a movie on the VOD channels I have to downgraded to a lower stream as my connection is just not at 1.5 but more like 800. Drives me bananas.

[DirtyRatStudios]

There is evidence that although many people in the UK are paying for 8 Mbps broadband, a large percentage get under 3 Mbps for long periods. Some still only have 1 Mbps connection.

If the person's 'pipe' is too narrow for the bitrate of a video they are trying to view then it will take a long time to start up. Typically a player tries to buffer ten seconds of video. I think Windows Media Player buffers enough of the video to play the entire thing without stopping. So, in the case of a ten minute video encoded at 2Mbps, viewed on 1Mbps broadband, it would buffer for five minutes. That's assuming the full speed of the 1Mbps connection is available. People could be downloading other things in the background.

I think if you have a proper streaming server then with some formats the server can reduce the bitrate of the video to suit the connection? But not if you are streaming from an ordinary website.

Unless the buffering is somehow encoded into the video file, and I don't think it is, encoding has no bearing on this at all. The only way it might help is optimising files for the best image quality at a particular bitrate. In other words you may be able to offer videos that look just as good but encoded at a lower bitrate. But there are limits.

My top tip would be to make sure you aren't wasting lots of bits on audio. perhaps encode the audio in mono instead of stereo: same quality but half the bitrate. As you lower the bitrate on the video part, make sure you do the same with the audio.

[Mickey]

correct, a streaming server can toggle between bitrate to keep the video flowing but from what i understand it can only do so if you have encoded the stream with multiple bitrates, saying you need to encode the movie as 128, 256, 512, 728, 1024 etc ... that way it will switch between the qualities to keep the video flowing - it doesnt do encoding on the fly so if the a lower quality isnt available nothing will happen.

[basschick]

i hate when streaming servers downgrade me over a momentary slowing of connection. that's why i always download when possible, and when not, i put the video on pause and let it fully load. i choose quality over smooth streaming every time.

[AlexManifestMan]

I really prefer to wait for something that looks great. But I also understand that in the end, they are videos to jack off with and the starting stopping can be a distraction for some folks. A very tough call. FTVGirls.com has killer video and more than anything else I want ours to work as well.

[abostonboy]

This is why I only download videos and watch them after are downloaded. i don't want internet congestion to kill my "fun".

[AnthonyDeAngelo]

I think a lot of customers don't like to wait when they want to get off. And I know some people who will abandon sites because of slow speeds even if they like the content.

Basschick has been doing some great encoding and really knows all about this stuff. All I know is how to get it into her hands... of course being a Mac user, I'm pretty wicked when it comes to turning out some good quality Quicktime vid clips and its taken me some experimenting to figure the best settings which I figured out on my own... everyone we work with tends to be on the PC end of the spectrum... I like apple for obvious reasons...

[basschick]

the perfectgonzo sites deal with the issue by offering enough sizes of video that anyone on broadband can stream the videos without a wait. most of their videos are offered in 4 sizes - some also offer full HD at 8 Mbps, but they also offer those 4 other sizes. they do something i didn't love, but it is effective - their smaller videos are offered with a lower fps rate so they are "lighter". and lighter videos stream faster.


I really prefer to wait for something that looks great. But I also understand that in the end, they are videos to jack off with and the starting stopping can be a distraction for some folks. A very tough call. FTVGirls.com has killer video and more than anything else I want ours to work as well.

[abostonboy]

If I were to start my own paysite today. I would offer a TRUE streaming flash video (on a streaming flash platform) and then offer my higher res videos for download. It would allow the surfer to stream through the videos fast to see if they wanted to download. (It sucks downloading a video only to find out it is a dud). They could also get off real quick if they wanted to via the flash stream and then have the download for later.