Proof, surfers do check prices

[gaydemon]

Just had this comment left on a review of a British site:



I tried to become a member but it seems they like to diddle European users. The rate is at US$ 25,95 for the first month, but CCBill will charge EUR 25,95 (~ US$ 38). The second processor strictly denies European customers and redirects to CCBill after denial.


Thought it might be of interest, i remember several posts in the past week or so about Euros. People do look at prices and do notice such things as the currency differences.

[abostonboy]

Hmmm. Is it MenAtPlay?

[Adam Mason]

Just had this comment left on a review of a British site:



Thought it might be of interest, i remember several posts in the past week or so about Euros. People do look at prices and do notice such things as the currency differences.

My first question would be how did the surfer check the prices? I can only assume against that quoted on a GayDemon review page. As I've said on other threads... this is going to hurt all of us unless we come together.

Sponsors are seeing greater and greater competition, more and more "cheap" sites while those who care are actually absorbing higher and higher costs. Those need to be offset somehow. I don't like to say this but affiliates need to recognise that times aren't what they used to be. Quality pays... but it also has a cost. You can't give a site with crappy download speeds and syndicated content 4 stars (just because they're cheap) and give the same ranking to a site with all original content, great download speeds, real personality etc etc just because they are more expensive.

[xstr8guy]

Hmmm. Is it MenAtPlay?


I checked their CCbill join form and when you click on the Euro symbol, they charge 17.63 EUR which sound like a fair conversion to me. I bet this is just a stupid surfer that didn't know he needed to click on the Euro symbol to see the price in Euros.

[dzinerbear]

This is going to be a nightmare. European surfers are going to be narked right off when they get their statements and see how much more money they're paying on the One US $ To One Euro cash grab tactic. This tactic is so short-sighted of this industry. We'll all pay for it in the end and it'll take a lot of back tracking to gain the confidence of European porn consumers.

Michael

[xstr8guy]

This is going to be a nightmare. European surfers are going to be narked right off when they get their statements and see how much more money they're paying on the One US $ To One Euro cash grab tactic. This tactic is so short-sighted of this industry. We'll all pay for it in the end and it'll take a lot of back tracking to gain the confidence of European porn consumers.

Michael

I think you are overreacting. This seems likely to be a surfer error... not a scam by a particular paysite. If this is a CCbill sponsor who is using GEO IP pricing, I don't think a sponsor can choose to charge different countries different prices. CCbill does the conversion and there may be slight fluctuations due to the conversion rate.

And besides, why can't a paysite charge different rates for different countries? As long as the price is clearly stated on the join form (which it most likely is), what's the problem?

[abostonboy]

If this is a CCbill sponsor who is using GEO IP pricing, I don't think a sponsor can choose to charge different countries different prices.


Sure you can. There are two versions of CCbill geo-ip pricing. The one that allows you to target certain countries a certain rate is in beta. The other is released. At least that is my understanding.

[abostonboy]

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/04/30/canada-to-get-new-prices-on-the-ps-store/

Geo ip prices have been in the business for a LONG time. That's just one example.

[abostonboy]

I bet this is just a stupid surfer that didn't know he needed to click on the Euro symbol to see the price in Euros.

Not at all. Let's assume it's Men At Play as they have a 25.95 price point. The conversion from Euro to US is the same as on the BlakeMason join form. 1.47 and we do not geo-ip yet.

What that surfer did was goto a review site, see a 25.95 price. Since there is some geo-ip pricing going on, his join page shows 25,95 euro, which is how CCbill's geo-ip works nows. So, if he clicked the US price, he would probably see about $38. YUP! 1.47 x 25.95 Euro = $38 US.

He's not dumb. He's just confused why his join form shows $38 US and the review site says 25.95 US.

[xstr8guy]

Not at all. Let's assume it's Men At Play as they have a 25.95 price point. The conversion from Euro to US is the same as on the BlakeMason join form. 1.47 and we do not geo-ip yet.

What that surfer did was goto a review site, see a 25.95 price. Since there is some geo-ip pricing going on, his join page shows 25,95 euro, which is how CCbill's geo-ip works nows. So, if he clicked the US price, he would probably see about $38. YUP! 1.47 x 25.95 Euro = $38 US.

He's not dumb. He's just confused why his join form shows $38 US and the review site says 25.95 US.

Do you in fact know that this is the case or are you just guessing this is what's happening with MAP's GEO IP pricing?

[gaybucks_chip]

CCBill's currently released GeoIP pricing works exactly as the surfer described.

US customers pay $19.95 or $24.95 or whatever in dollars.
European customers pay 19.95 or 24.95 Euro.
They do similar conversions for British pounds, yen, etc.

If you happen to be in the US, you currently get a "deal" over what the european customers pay, but the same is true in any sort of worldwide currency transaction... look at how many US companies use Indian coders or call centers, Filipino designers, etc.

[basschick]

every review site puts up the prices. now that there's such an easy way for ccbill programs to use this geoip thing, i predict that there will be a lot more such complaints.

[abostonboy]

As Chip said, the one out of of beta is a one:one ratio. I know that for a fact.

And the conversion that you quoted is the same conversion that is on BlakeMason's join form. (we don't geo ip). It's just CCbill shows it in different currencies. (converted as the daily? conversion rate).

What the surfer said is what it is - he's getting cherged $38 US for a 25,95 membership. Plain and simple.

When we do geo-ip it will not be a 1:1 conversion. Meaning, $28 US will not be 28 Euros. In the market we are in we just can't do that and remain competitive. This is proof. MAP may price themselves out of the market.

[abostonboy]

Do you in fact know that this is the case or are you just guessing this is what's happening with MAP's GEO IP pricing?

100% certain. Had this discussion at the Phoenix Forum.

Jim,

Have your business partner check in the UK. IF MAP is geo-ip pricing the Sterling, it should be like $48 a month recurring on the join form. Assuming a 1.88 conversion rate.

[milivanili]

Xstr8guy:

UKNakedMen has 26,95 $ on join pages, but as a European surfer I get 26,95 euros... and you don't have that writen on your join pages

Menatplay charges 25,95 EUROS, I don't know where you have seen 17 euros price?

Or it all might be set different for different EU countries?

Do program owners from US even know how much they charge to European customers? :)

[abostonboy]

Do program owners from US even know how much they charge to European customers? :)

I know what we charge. There is no geo-ip as of yet. When we do it will not be a 1 : 1 ratio. That's just too much imho.

[abostonboy]

Menatplay charges 25,95 EUROS, I don't know where you have seen 17 euros price?



17 euros is what we see in the US when you click on the currency converter. All it does it convert the base price from one currency to another based (I guess) on Ccbill's banks conversion numbers.

For example:

$28 US
19.08 Euro
14.91 Sterling
29.99 Canadian
31.45 Australia
is our monthly membership. That should be the same no matter what country you are in....

$26,95 Euro is actually $39.55 USD.

If review sites and join pages are showing one price and a consumer is getting charged another, it can be a real mess.

That is the ONE major problem with CCbill's geo-ip pricing. If you have the price on your "pre join page", and then you geo ip with ccbill, it only changes the price on the join page hosted on CCbill's server. So, yes a customer sees 26.95 on the site, bit when they hit the Ccbill join page, they will see 26,95 euro and if they click the US flag they will see 39.55.

Better solution is to use a Max Mind db then you can geo ip the join prices that are on your own hosted tour.

Not so sure I would join a site that advertised one price, then when you hit the join page showed another. Kinda like when you go grocery shopping and see something advertised for 4.99 and they ring it up at 5.99. You may just take the item, but it leaves a bad feeling.

Didn't CCbill tell webmasters that it didn't change the price on the tour that the webmaster hosted, only the CCbill join page.

I really beieve that so many companies are jumping on the geo - ip thing without thinking it all the way through.

In the meantime, I am enjoying the bump in sales. :)

[gaydemon]

To be honest the real isssue here is that you can't charge the same in US and Euro. How can a conversion between the 2 currencies at 1:1 ever be fair to a customer?

If i personally found out i was charged that sort of rate I would think I had been ripped off. No matter how good the site is.

Its not as simple as trying to hide prices or get review sites not to publish prices. Thats like creating a huge cover up.. No what needs to be sorted out is a proper conversion. It cant be that hard do to. It doesnt have to be exact or even a 100% fair conversion, but atlest not 1:1. Thats just so in your face that its silly.

[abostonboy]

And besides, why can't a paysite charge different rates for different countries? As long as the price is clearly stated on the join form (which it most likely is), what's the problem?

That's the problem. There are TWO prices. One on the site and then one on CCbill's join page.

How can you say a site is $25 then when a customer from the EU goes to the join page and clicks the US flag and sees a much higher US price?

Is that even legal?

[abostonboy]

My first question would be how did the surfer check the prices?

From the "join page" on the sites tour.

http://blakemason.com/subscribe.php

If we were geo-iping with CCbill that page would have the same prices no matter what country the surfer came from.

So, $28 US (the stated price) would be different in Euros when the surfer got the ccbill join page and clicked the US flag. It would be much higher than $28.

Before review sites get it sorted out, I think paysite owners need to get it sorted out first.

Why advertise all over the tour that a site costs 24.95 US and then when a EU surfer hits the join page, it costs much more.

What a mess.

Your programmer will be busy with that Max Mind DB Adam. The ONLY solution is to geo-ip the tour to the country.

[milivanili]

To be honest the real isssue here is that you can't charge the same in US and Euro. How can a conversion between the 2 currencies at 1:1 ever be fair to a customer?

If i personally found out i was charged that sort of rate I would think I had been ripped off. No matter how good the site is.

Its not as simple as trying to hide prices or get review sites not to publish prices. Thats like creating a huge cover up.. No what needs to be sorted out is a proper conversion. It cant be that hard do to. It doesnt have to be exact or even a 100% fair conversion, but atlest not 1:1. Thats just so in your face that its silly.


Bjorn, you can go re-read my post where I rant about those conversions and had an argue with Alex from Manifest Men and got accused of being nasty and rude...

That was the whole point I was trying to prove....

[Adam Mason]

Lloyd, how much does a Big Mac Meal cost in the USA? And how much does a gallon of petrol (gas!) cost? Let's do some comparisons on other things as well as porn to judge the value of a subscription in real terms in different countries and see what a fair conversion ratio would be.

[Adam Mason]

From the "join page" on the sites tour.

http://blakemason.com/subscribe.php

If we were geo-iping with CCbill that page would have the same prices no matter what country the surfer came from.

So, $28 US (the stated price) would be different in Euros when the surfer got the ccbill join page and clicked the US flag. It would be much higher than $28.

Before review sites get it sorted out, I think paysite owners need to get it sorted out first.

Why advertise all over the tour that a site costs 24.95 US and then when a EU surfer hits the join page, it costs much more.

What a mess.

Your programmer will be busy with that Max Mind DB Adam. The ONLY solution is to geo-ip the tour to the country.

That's why I'm not jumping on the bandwagon... when we do it we'll do it right. The only page that needs a geo-ip script is the subscribe page to give the surfer the relevant price before they jump to the join form... and those links will be different according the surfers country.

Also, when we do this, it will only be for direct traffic and not affiliate traffic... that is, until all our other secret, devilish plans have been put in place 666

[marcjacob]

CCBill are going to have to provide prices to the tour using rss or something. And probably to the review sites. That wouldnt be too much effort for them.

I agree with Bjorn, a 1:1 conversion is a rip off (but Ive benefited from it by making more money) and we shouldnt just cover it up.

It should be done fairly to the consumer. They are after all the life blood of the entire industry. Without them we dont have a business - so lets treat them with a little bit of respect.

[abostonboy]

Lloyd, how much does a Big Mac Meal cost in the USA? And how much does a gallon of petrol (gas!) cost? Let's do some comparisons on other things as well as porn to judge the value of a subscription in real terms in different countries and see what a fair conversion ratio would be.

Adam,

I AGREE with you 100%. My point I am trying to make is when I "pay" for the Big Mac or the gas I expect it to be the same price as on the menu or the gas pump,

I am not arguing that geo-ip is bad. You made some very valid points, especially since you have servers in Europe to handle European customers. You expenses did go up, while the dollar still drops.

I am just saying the price on the join form should match the price on the site. That Max Mind DB you have will do that nicely.

[abostonboy]

CCBill are going to have to provide prices to the tour using rss or something. And probably to the review sites. That wouldnt be too much effort for them.



This is really the paysite owner's job, not CCbill. Buy a Maxmind DB and geo-ip the join page on your tour.

[marcjacob]

This is really the paysite owner's job, not CCbill. Buy a Maxmind DB and geo-ip the join page on your tour.

How would you know what exchange rate CCBill are using though?

[abostonboy]

How would you know what exchange rate CCBill are using though?

If a paysite charges EU customers say 22.95 Euro, then that is what would be on the join page on the site and on the CCbill join form. There would be no need for an exchange rate.

Example:

Is surfer = EU then show join page on site at 22,95 Euro and link to CCbill geo-ip join form with 22,95 Euro.

There would be no mention of USD on the paysites join page. The conversion really doesn;t matter as the site is not making any claims in any curreny other than Euros

[xstr8guy]

We've deactivated the regional pricing option for now until this gets sorted out. For some reason CCbill has very different exchange rates for different countries/regions. They have a "recommended ratio" for exchange rates but I don't see anyway to adjust them in the admin. The Euro and GBP exchange rates are WAY off but the Canadian dollar, the Yen, Australian dollar are very close.

Thanks everyone for pointing out this problem. :)

[Gaystoryman]

You know, there is another minefield here just waiting for unsuspecting affliates, as well as sponsors.

As Jim has pointed out, the rates are rather misleading, but while everyone and their dog is touting geo ip pricing, what about the Affliate?

Yes I may be in Canada, but I know I get a fair amount of FOREIGN TRAFFIC, that reads my stuff, and if I put a price up, like Blake Mason at $28 US to join, and they suddenly see a change, thanks to ccBill geo pricing, I LOSE THEIR TRUST as well as the SPONSOR.

It isn't just review sites that can be dinged here, but every affiliate, and while maybe the majority of traffic for some comes from their own country, we ALL get foreign traffic, and sales.

And we have NO WAY OF KNOWING either. Unless we go to every sponsor we deal with, and click the sign up page, then the various currencies, to see what the rates are... and like who the hell has the time for all that bullshit?

I don't know, but I think I'll stick with sponsors who DO NOT USE GEO IP PRICING. :whip:

[Gaystoryman]

We've deactivated the regional pricing option for now until this gets sorted out. For some reason CCbill has very different exchange rates for different countries/regions. They have a "recommended ratio" for exchange rates but I don't see anyway to adjust them in the admin. The Euro and GBP exchange rates are WAY off but the Canadian dollar, the Yen, Australian dollar are very close.

Thanks everyone for pointing out this problem. :)

btw Jim, the Canadian dollar is still higher than the US Dollar, and has been for months... so a 1.10 ratio is a RIP OFF, as far as Canadians would be concerned. as we are paying a higher price, when it should be lower.

[Adam Mason]

You know, there is another minefield here just waiting for unsuspecting affliates, as well as sponsors.

As Jim has pointed out, the rates are rather misleading, but while everyone and their dog is touting geo ip pricing, what about the Affliate?

Yes I may be in Canada, but I know I get a fair amount of FOREIGN TRAFFIC, that reads my stuff, and if I put a price up, like Blake Mason at $28 US to join, and they suddenly see a change, thanks to ccBill geo pricing, I LOSE THEIR TRUST as well as the SPONSOR.

It isn't just review sites that can be dinged here, but every affiliate, and while maybe the majority of traffic for some comes from their own country, we ALL get foreign traffic, and sales.

And we have NO WAY OF KNOWING either. Unless we go to every sponsor we deal with, and click the sign up page, then the various currencies, to see what the rates are... and like who the hell has the time for all that bullshit?

I don't know, but I think I'll stick with sponsors who DO NOT USE GEO IP PRICING. :whip:

Well, I think if that's your stance then over the next 12 months you may end up with very few sponsors to promote. I'll join you in saying that so far, those adopting it haven't ironed out the bugs, but it's going to be the way of the future if there's even 50 cents to be earnt per subscription. Times are changing :ouch:

But the question still remains... what are review sites going to say about the pricing details? Is it really that important to include?

[xstr8guy]

btw Jim, the Canadian dollar is still higher than the US Dollar, and has been for months... so a 1.10 ratio is a RIP OFF, as far as Canadians would be concerned. as we are paying a higher price, when it should be lower.


I didn't mean to imply that the exchange rates were accurate for the Canadian dollar. But they are more realistic than the Euro and Pound... the Euro is especially out-of-whack. When did CCbill come up with these exchange rates... 2002?! That was the last time the Euro was 1:1 with the USD. Lol.

[Adam Mason]

I didn't mean to imply that the exchange rates were accurate for the Canadian dollar. But they are more realistic than the Euro and Pound... the Euro is especially out-of-whack. When did CCbill come up with these exchange rates... 2002?! That was the last time the Euro was 1:1 with the USD. Lol.

So, would you like to share your experience of geo-ip pricing with the board? Did it boost revenue, reduce subscriptions... I think it would be great if you can expose some light here. This is surely going to be a hot topic over the coming months which will run and run!

[gaydemon]

I know that, but the difference is all in presentation. ;)

The problem with billing on ccbill at the moment is that site owners it seems have little or no choice in how to handle different currencies. I tested it on some sites and there is a clear lack of support in ccbill from what i can see.

I'm not sure either if Alex are talking about the same things as here. Manifest men has servers not only in the US but europe to distrubute downloads etc. which i tested for him. So its slightly different.

But yes, otherwise you are right. Me like you, thinks that a 1:1 conversion is wrong.


Bjorn, you can go re-read my post where I rant about those conversions and had an argue with Alex from Manifest Men and got accused of being nasty and rude...

That was the whole point I was trying to prove....

[xstr8guy]

So, would you like to share your experience of geo-ip pricing with the board? Did it boost revenue, reduce subscriptions... I think it would be great if you can expose some light here. This is surely going to be a hot topic over the coming months which will run and run!

I haven't really noticed any fluctuation in total sales dollars... but then again, we haven't had GEO IP pricing active for very long (now suspended), so the sales trend isn't going to be very accurate.

[Adam Mason]

Oh, in the last two days my customers have come from:

UK
USA
Canada
Australia
China
Japan
New Zealand
Norway
Switzerland
Croatia
Israel
Korea
Hungary
Denmark
France
Ireland
Italy
Sweden
Germany
Netherlands
Portugal
Spain
Barbados
Malaysia
Mexico
Brazil
Finland
Iceland
Hong Kong
South Africa
Arab Emirates
Belgium

Quite a range, eh?

[abostonboy]

The one thing about Manifest Men is he doesn't publish the price on the website. (At least that I can tell). So, it's not like there is one price on the site and a totally different on the join page.

That's my main concern. Is it even in line with Visa regs to say the site is $24.95 on the tour and when the surfer hits the CCbill join page, he finds out it's much higher? I am sure Visa at some point will say that the price on your site must match the price on your join page.

Imagine ordering something from the menu at a nice rest. and having the menu say it's 14.99 then you get the check and it's 27.99. I may pay the bill as I already ate the food, but i ain't coming back!

[abostonboy]

I know that, but the difference is all in presentation. ;)

The problem with billing on ccbill at the moment is that site owners it seems have little or no choice in how to handle different currencies. I tested it on some sites and there is a clear lack of support in ccbill from what i can see.



The MAIN problem is CCbill owners that post the price on the tour can't match the price on the tour to the price on the join form UNLESS they geo-ip their tour, don't print the price on the tour (affects conversion), or does something like:

Prices starting at $24.95. (Maybe higher depending on what country you are joining from).

Now that would be a good one!

[Gaystoryman]

Well, I think if that's your stance then over the next 12 months you may end up with very few sponsors to promote. I'll join you in saying that so far, those adopting it haven't ironed out the bugs, but it's going to be the way of the future if there's even 50 cents to be earnt per subscription. Times are changing :ouch:

But the question still remains... what are review sites going to say about the pricing details? Is it really that important to include?

Yep, more than likely it will cut down the number of sponsors, but then if the surfer gets tired of being ripped off, by having different pricing tossed at them, that is, like it appears to be now, there may a lot less sponsors out there too.

Now if a firm gets it right, hey I have no problem with Geo IP Pricing, but until that happens, I am not going to jeopardize the trust I have earned from my surfers.

I think what Lloyd is saying on how to adjust for this is a start, but I wonder if the customer will take that into account, when hit with a price that is so out of whack, like an Euro for a USD? They might but still hold a grudge against the site that sent them. :rolleyes:

[deanb]

Imagine ordering something from the menu at a nice rest. and having the menu
say it's 14.99 then you get the check and it's 27.99. I may pay the bill as I already ate the food, but i ain't coming back!

This doesn't make sense for a porn site, as they pay before they get the goods, not afterwards.

[abostonboy]

This doesn't make sense for a porn site, as they pay before they get the goods, not afterwards.

Ok. Better example. Walk into McDonalds and order a Big Mac (It's on the menu at 1.99).. When the cashier says, "that will be 3.28 please". What do you do?

Do you take it anyways? Do you just say, "I will pass". That's the SAME exact thing that happens on a CCbill join page when the price is not as stated on the tour.

A site advertises $24.95 as the price. A Euro customer hits the ccbill join form and it's 24,95 euro. Then he click the US flag and it's like $32. What would you do?

[abostonboy]

Yep, more than likely it will cut down the number of sponsors, but then if the surfer gets tired of being ripped off, by having different pricing tossed at them, that is, like it appears to be now, there may a lot less sponsors out there too.

Now if a firm gets it right, hey I have no problem with Geo IP Pricing, but until that happens, I am not going to jeopardize the trust I have earned from my surfers.

I think what Lloyd is saying on how to adjust for this is a start, but I wonder if the customer will take that into account, when hit with a price that is so out of whack, like an Euro for a USD? They might but still hold a grudge against the site that sent them. :rolleyes:

GSM,

When and if we do geo-ip it will be done right. Trust me, this has taken up a lot of time for me and expense for Adam.

Geo-ip is not a bad thing.

Items get sold in different countries at different prices all the time. A book in the US is about $25 (hardcover) list. How much is it in the UK? Same with video games. The list goes on.

Now, the whole issue with geo-ip is it has to be fair compared to other things. For an example,

A movie ticket in the US is about 10-12, so a paysite is about 2-3 times a movie ticket. A pack of cigs is $7 in the US. A paysite is about 5 times a pack of cigs. A porn dvd (A title) is $50. A paysite is about 1/2 that.

The price of porn has to be relative to other expenditures. When the dollar drops so low that a membership to a paysite costs less than a pack of cigs in the UK, something is wrong. Not saying that will happen. But in the US I can buy 4 packs of cigs or a membership to a paysite. In the UK it's about 2 packs of cigs to a paysite membership. Not sure on other things.

As Adam pointed out, we spent considerable money on offshore hosting so European clients could connect to the site faster. We pay that bill in Euros. We pay models in Euros. Employees in the UK are payed in Euros. As expanses go up, revenue goes down. It goes down for both the paysite and the affiliate.

Even ad buys outside the US are costing more. As the US dollar nosedives, Attitude Magazine's rates rise. The cost of doing business increases just as fast as the US dollar decreases.

Here is the MAIN issue -

With the US economy, it's damn hard to raise the prices. The money to spend on porn is just not there. So, the BEST way and the way we plan on implementing it is to look at the VALUE of a porn site relative to other expenditures on entertainment in that country.

It wont be a wacked one to one ratio. Surfers will not see one price on our tour and another on the join page. And affiliates will get a raise.

Concerning prices - Sites change the prices all the time. If I had a nickel for everytime badpuppy changed their price, I could buy a few big macs. Review sites can simply say that the price is US 24.95 but the site geo-ips. Something like that.

It's not easy for European based sites that pay models in Euros, hosting in Euros, employees in euros, etc to see the dollar decline as fast as it is. For some sites the lost revenue is thousands of dollars a week. Even affiliates are feeling the pinch. An affiliate outside the US is seeing his revenue decline because of the low US dollar.

It hurts both paysite owners and affiliates.

But seriously, as an industry I don't feel that we can let the price of a paysite membership drop to what a pack of cigs cost in some countries. I would like to think that a month's membership to BlakeMason is more valuable than 20 cigs.

[xstr8guy]

Well said Lloyd. This is a very valid point especially for non-US based paysites. Every time the dollar sinks lower compared to other currencies, the UK, European, Asian, etc. paysite owners takes a pay cut. If you live in most other developed countries, your penny is worth more than someone who lives in the US... so why not charge more for goods and services depending on where your customer is?

This situation is just coming to a head in our business because the dollar is fast becoming worthless to the rest of the world. Non-US based sites have been taking a beating for a long time and it's about time we do something about it. However, figuring out how to do it fairly is the tricky part. No reputable paysite owner wants to piss off their affiliates or customers. So, how do we do it so it's fair for the owner, the affiliates and the members?

[Gaystoryman]

With the US economy, it's damn hard to raise the prices. The money to spend on porn is just not there. So, the BEST way and the way we plan on implementing it is to look at the VALUE of a porn site relative to other expenditures on entertainment in that country.There is no doubt that NON USA operations are being hit by the weak dollar, but even in a recession some things seem to just sell more. Is the porn industry one of those? I don't know, but it seems that the Video Game Market is booming, as it is providing more bang per buck during a money conscious society or hard time economy.

So is that true with porn sites? I kind of think not, if the value is there. Just like a video game that can provide more entertainment bang, than say going out to eat, or to a movie does, and so does a good porn site, so will it suffer?

[xstr8guy]

We have seen an increased number of US members email us and site money problems as a reason for cancellation requests. It's not an alarming amount of emails but prior to this year, we never once received emails like that. And I'm not convinced that it's a true lack of funds for these members but rather they are just starting to cutback on unnecessary expenditures because they are worried about what is happening to the economy. And I think credit card debt is piling up for a lot of people these days.

[abostonboy]

The bottom line really is this:

Good paysites have high operating costs. Those costs are increasing while the dollar nose dives.

Take for example the UK market. It's hard to justify dropping $10,000 a month in ads in that market when the price of your product has decreased so much. At some point the ad buys become meaningless. Ad prices go up in pounds and the price of your product drops in dollars.

Look at BlakeMason. When the site launched it was maybe $24. Now, it's $28. After adding 100's of videos and spending over $100,000 in ads in the UK, the site is cheaper for someone in the UK now than it was when it launched. Yet, it is more expensive for someone in the US.

Affiliates outside the US are making less money as well. The 50% revshare or the $35 pps is much lower now than two years ago.

IMHO, the goal of a porn business is to maximize it's revenue for the program, the affiliates, and offer a quality product at a fair price for the consumer. That is what we are focusing on doing.

[Adam Mason]

Just to be clear... as a UK company we pay most of our bills in pounds sterling, not Euros. But everything else Lloyd says is correct.

But get this nail in the coffin. When I planned to set up BLAKEMASON and did all the financial forecasts it was on the exchange rate of 3 years ago. If the exchange rate was the same today, I would earn an extra £1,000 / $2,000 a week. Over the course of the year, that means the weak dollar is costing me £50,000 or $100,000

Ughhh.

[AlexManifestMan]

IMHO, the goal of a porn business is to maximize it's revenue for the program, the affiliates, and offer a quality product at a fair price for the consumer. That is what we are focusing on doing.

I agree totally. With just over 40% of our members outside the US we must think and price with a clear eye to global economics. This new pricing method has slightly (less that 1/4 of one percent) fewer new joins and increase our revenue in some cases by 30%. We can not just leave the money sitting on the table. Does the exclusivity of our content and our niche have a role in this? Yes, I believe it does.

[abostonboy]

We can not just leave the money sitting on the table. Does the exclusivity of our content and our niche have a role in this? Yes, I believe it does.


Agreed 100%.