View Full Version : "thugs"
Most dictionaries say:
"thug - a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer"
All "thug" sites I've seen so far exclusively represent black men. How do you feel about this association? Is it racist?
I check out these sites and while they vary, mostly I love them. Hot men and hot content in my personal opinion. Obviously they're about black men, and I think we need more black men represented in the gay adult biz. However, I feel uncomfortable that the site sells itself as being about lowly and unsavory (to say the least) folks, and then represents them all as black as if that's who thugs are. Pretty racist sounding to me. Plenty of thugs who are white, plenty of any race.
I'm not saying the producers of this material or those who promote it are racist. I just wonder if they/we are overlooking this factor, or it matters, or what to think.
The bottom line is I might want to promote these sites because I think the content is good. It's tough.
gaydemon
03-19-2010, 06:34 AM
It probably is racist if you take it out of context. But so is most Porn related terms. For example, a transgender / transsexual person would be offended if you called them a shemale.
Ethnic related porn will always sound racist, however I've always felt it's the opposite. It caters for people (and often made by people) who have an attraction for that specific racial trait. So to me it's more a term of endearment if you like.
However, "Thugs" I've mostly seen spelled out as Thugz in porn. But not sure if there is any difference or if that's just down to easier to get a domain name.
Simon
03-19-2010, 06:51 AM
I think that thug / thugz is a term that has been appropriated to generally mean bad boy, systemically this is associated with people of colour, and yeah porn is racist. Especially in straight, you see tons of models whose rates are affected by wether they will do interracial or not.
Conversely, there remains in ethnic porn this xenophobic curiosity about 'how they do it' which is what often fuels the mystique that drives the niche. In gay porn its a lot more about the social codes that surround each ethno-niche, and the philia of cultures different than or similar to one's own.
IMO between gay and straight this difference of 'peering in' on another ethnicity's sex life has to do with the idea of 'the other'. White people often see other ethnicities as an 'other' or exotic, but gay people already perceive the world from the perspective of 'the other' so there is less divide and more honest appreciation or preference.
Thats my roughshod and probably faulted sociology on it for the day, I hope that it makes some sense! :)
Does the fact that most of the "thug" sites feature almost exclusively black men make it a racist term? In those cases, I would say yes it does. However, I personally don't think of a specific race/ethnicity when I hear the term "thug".
We have one guy who happens to be white, maybe Latino, I'm actually not even sure of his ethnicity. He definitly has a "thug" look & sound to him and we called it just that in some of our preview videos.
Hard Sucking from Thug:
http://www.gaytube.com/media/53911/Hard_Sucking_from_Thug/
Thug Sucked Off:
http://www.gaytube.com/media/57592/Thug_Sucked_Off/
RDude
03-19-2010, 09:42 AM
I can certainly see how the term "thug" and it's orientation toward mostly urban black or latino men is racist. I have to be completely honest though and say that whenever I use the term thug or thugz in posts at my black blog, the traffic is amazing. From what I'm seeing, this "racist" term is a huge seller. I would go as far as calling "supposed" straight ethnic thugz engaging in man to man sexual acts a fetish even. Thugz sell and that's the bottom line.
AlexManifestMan
03-19-2010, 10:30 AM
It is a niche term. When I here thugs (z) porn it all about scary looking black guys with chains and odd caps. The two producers that I know personally that produce it are doing so for a target audience. I don't think it is racists in the least. I mean you don't ever see 'trailer trash' videos with black guys in them cause again, it is about a stereotype / fantasy.
If somebody said "look out for the thug" to me on the street I would not be on the lookout for a black guy but rather somebody who looked like Popeye's nemesis Blutto or robber on a cartoon with a black cap and brass knuckles.
I wouldn't sweat it. I don't personally like the 'thugz niche' cause these guys overall seem really unhappy doing what they are doing and that kills any 'hot factor' for me personally. But we all have different boats so whatever floats yours is groovy by me.
Good points. The one quoted below is something that passed by me, and is really important. I haven't checked out the sites that thoroughly, need to look at that more carefully. Guys not thrilled about what they are doing is counterproductive.
I don't personally like the 'thugz niche' cause these guys overall seem really unhappy doing what they are doing and that kills any 'hot factor' for me personally. But we all have different boats so whatever floats yours is groovy by me.
AlexManifestMan
03-19-2010, 10:48 AM
Yeah but that is just me Tim. If it sells, and "no animals were harmed in the making of this video" then go for it.
We have a very vocal group that ask for more and more black bodybuilders on Manifest Men. But when we add them and they appear on the home page, the bounces from the page double. Not to mention that fact that black bodybuilders that will do jack off videos are few and far between. There is a market for everything and if you know how to promote it and it appeals to you, then go for it.
The "not enjoying it factor" is part of the thug persona so I don't think you will find many of them smiling.
On a side note: sexy new avatar!
LOL Thanks. Brand new as of yesterday morning.
On a side note: sexy new avatar!
QueerLust
03-19-2010, 02:31 PM
It's done so that it's easy for people to find what they're searching for.
Do they want to search "ethnic guys" or "black guys?" They are going to search for black, so that's what we give them.
The surfers/viewers dictate what we do.
If someone owns a site and pays attention to their search queries and sees a lot of "thug" and wants to launch a interracial site where big black guys pound the hell out of skinny white boys, then thug is what they'll use because people are looking for it.
I think what you said has a lot to do with it. But I'm still ambivalent about promoting a negative stereotype just because people think like that - we shall see what I decide to do. However, there is a fine line as was brought up by others. In some strange, very strange, way thugs could be used as a sexy, hot term (not for me!). Some people get off on the fantasy of tough nasty guy maybe because it's just fantasy and they know they guy is OK underneath it all. LOL, I admit I do sometimes. In this sense, it might be OK. Maybe.
It's done so that it's easy for people to find what they're searching for.
Do they want to search "ethnic guys" or "black guys?" They are going to search for black, so that's what we give them.
The surfers/viewers dictate what we do.
If someone owns a site and pays attention to their search queries and sees a lot of "thug" and wants to launch a interracial site where big black guys pound the hell out of skinny white boys, then thug is what they'll use because people are looking for it.
Hammerhead
03-19-2010, 04:48 PM
I'm black and I don't find the term offensive.
The thug niche is more about the clothing, tattoos, jewelery, attitude, etc, than the color of the model's skin.
Its also not exclusive to the black niche, there is the site StraightNakedThugs.com from the Skater Bucks affiliate program which features mostly white and latino models.
Glad you commented. That helps me to understand more. Thanks!
I'm black and I don't find the term offensive.
The thug niche is more about the clothing, tattoos, jewelery, attitude, etc, than the color of the model's skin.
Its also not exclusive to the black niche, there is the site StraightNakedThugs.com from the Skater Bucks affiliate program which features mostly white and latino models.
QueerLust
03-19-2010, 07:17 PM
I think what you said has a lot to do with it. But I'm still ambivalent about promoting a negative stereotype
You have to look at context, too. Queer is an offensive word if a straight guy uses it in a negative way. If I use it, the negative stereotypes are not attached. The same with thug. A thug can be a sexy, rugged and tough Alpha male that likes danger. If you use thug in the sexy sense, then it's fine. If you use it as a negative connotation or to make fun then it's not cool.
It's not words that hurt, it's the way they are used.
iowaman
03-19-2010, 07:54 PM
Don't usually do it, but I'm jumping in on this one.
The modern use of the term was not 'racist' but was more 'racial' or better said as 'ethnic'. But during the Obama campaign a lot of that changed with both the (in)famous comment by Limbaugh and the rantings of all-purpose bigot Mark Williams.
In many quarters the word has definitely morphed into a racist meaning, but I think it's fair to say that the way it's used with gay porn is safely 'unracist'.
And for the record: in some circles the term 'homo thug' is popular which is a white guy trying to be all 'gangsta'.
Rich
Thanks for popping into the conversation, Rich.
You know, lol, I still don't like the word queer for gay. It's so common today and good people are using it and don't mean anything wrong, so I am getting more used to it.
Like I said, I'm starting to see how thug can be used as a sexy word. It's just harder for me to get past the negative part. This is an interesting thread. I like how we can discuss things. It also resolved my dilemma in promoting thug or thugz sites.
xenigo
03-21-2010, 10:53 PM
Tim,
You're totally over-analyzing this. "Thug" is a term of endearment that means "sexy black men" among black people. Just take for instance how the term is used in music. Women sing about wanting a hard thug. Men sing about being a thug, thug appeal, etc.
Back in 2005 when I first began production for GhettoThugs.com, I walked cautiously around the subject. In fact in a lot of cases I didn't even tell people what the site was that I was shooting them for. Frankly I did not know how they would react / respond. But to my surprise, the more I told people about the site, the more they wanted to work with me. "Thug" is something many black men aspire to be. It's a synonym for black men who are strong and assertive, and stylish.
Open up a black magazine and read about it :)
Maybe someday I can find a nice "thug" of my own (good guy "thug" not the bad guy thug, you know). ;) I understand now, xenigo, and thanks.